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Original poster

To think that God wouldn't mind DB being gay

103 replies

Thepowerof3 · 03/08/2013 20:47

My DM has found religion in the last couple of years and has become quite vocal on certain issues including gay marriage. My DB is gay and whilst she accepts him she doesn't believe he should be able to marry, even lobbied her local mp to vote against it. I'm no theologist but surely if you believe God created man then he created homosexuals as well as heterosexuals and if not then DB is somehow choosing to be gay?

OP posts:
LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 03/08/2013 22:23

earth, the concept did not exist in the same way back then - not so far as we know.

I certainly raise an eyebrow to people who say 'oh, yes, they were definitely gay'. I think that is ridiculous, rather like the way people who insist that Leonard da Vinci 'was obviously dyslexic' are being silly.

However, what we can say is that the Bible shows us that strong, loving relationships are good. It was not written in a time where people understood sexuality as we did. But God is outside time. It is hard for me to believe God would grant us the capacity to recognize the love in relationships, and yet would want us to deny it.

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 03/08/2013 22:25
    • I should explain: it's not that I think I know David and Jonathan wouldn't be gay if they lived now, or that da Vinci would test out as dyslexic on a modern test - the point is that the concepts didn't exist back then, so people wouldn't understand it that way. But I am absolutely certain the same loving emotions existed just as they do now, and that is the important thing.
earthmother33 · 03/08/2013 22:27

Homosexuality is "a sin". However, God loves everyone and sent his one and only son to prove just how much! It just winds me up when people talk about Naomi and Ruth and Jonathon and David in that manner.

Ikeameatballs · 03/08/2013 22:28

V. Interesting discussion.

How does anyone know if David and Jonathan were gay or not? I can't see why it's impossible.

wharrgarbl · 03/08/2013 22:28

Why is it a sin? Because it says so in Leviticus?

earthmother33 · 03/08/2013 22:30

No man should lie with another man. No woman should lie with another woman

squoosh · 03/08/2013 22:33

Unclench your arse and go lie with a woman earthmother, might lighten you up a bit.

Original poster
Thepowerof3 · 03/08/2013 22:33

I don't know anything about that but anything that helps me understand my DM is much appreciated

OP posts:
wharrgarbl · 03/08/2013 22:33

Well, actually, it doesn't say that - you're misquoting Leviticus 18, which also includes a laundry list of all kinds of other things which are just as much of an 'abomination' - mixed fibre clothing for one.
If you're going to lecture on your religion, you there is some onus on you to know it.

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 03/08/2013 22:33

Why does it wind you up, earth? Confused

What's wrong with it?

ikea - they can't know. Even until recently, people simply did not understand it the same way. Nowadays, we tend to say that someone who is physically turned on by members of the same sex is gay. But in (say) ancient Greece, they thought that was simply normal, that everyone found teenage lads sexy. The same is true in various periods of history. And when Wilde was alive, people thought it was a crime to have sex with a rent boy, and that it was obscene - but we know Wilde had a sexual relationship with his wife, as he had children.

Interestingly, our current ideas marginalize bisexuality, so you can see it isn't without bias.

We can't possibly know what David and Jonathan felt, but it is clear in the Bible they loved each other, so I think it is obvious love is a good thing.

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 03/08/2013 22:35

'No woman should lie with another woman'

Despite my lack of interest in Biblical literalism, I would like to know where this quotation is from!

Ididabravebravething · 03/08/2013 22:36

sorry was letting the dog out, what did I miss OP? Grin

In your mums eyes I believe she loves your brother but thinks by stopping him (or trying to by involving the MP!) she will be loving him practically (iyswim) by (in her opinion) stopping him from making a BIG mistake.

I believe that she believes you guys simply do not know the truth like she does? if that makes sense

hence the feeling you can't get through to her

wharrgarbl · 03/08/2013 22:36

It doesn't exist - she's improvising to suit her prejudices.

Ididabravebravething · 03/08/2013 22:39

as I said I do not think she is meaningfully being prejudiced - I believe she loves you (both)

Neither do I think she is improvising to suit her needs

(sorry fellow poster lol)

MoosheKoochak · 03/08/2013 22:40

Naomi and Ruth... have the people suggesting that they had sexual relations actually read the book? Naomi was Ruth's mother-in-law. She helped her get set up with her second husband.

Isn't it so nice how people with varying beliefs and opinions are shown tolerance and acceptance on mumsnet Hmm

Ididabravebravething · 03/08/2013 22:44

the naomi and ruth one I did try to question myself lol Grin

Original poster
Thepowerof3 · 03/08/2013 22:45

She says if we don't believe she will miss us when we are in hell

OP posts:
Catsize · 03/08/2013 22:46

ididabravebravething, here is one link of many. Haven't looked for the best (have seen far better), just the easiest to locate. Bit of Googling can be done if you like.
www.mccofthespirit.org/connect/documents/OurStoryToo3.pdf

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 03/08/2013 22:48

mooshe - yes, I have read the book, bless you. Grin

Of course, women never have loving relationships, right?

What a load of rubbish.

It is clear that book is about loving relationships. Personally, I think there is nothing sexual implied - but what the Bible makes clear is that the love between those women is important, and no less important than that between a woman and her husband. I certainly don't believe the writers intended to suggest women in sexual relationships were in a marriage - those writers were tied to their time and could not have understood that. But they still managed to show us a wonderful, touching story.

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 03/08/2013 22:49

Btw, I love my MIL to bits and I find that story chimes with me like mad. All it proves to me is that the Bible is saying that you must simple try to love people. No need to bring sex into it - you care for people if you can.

Original poster
Thepowerof3 · 03/08/2013 22:51

What about women not being best placed to dispense advice?!

OP posts:
Catsize · 03/08/2013 22:53

Oh, and I know it is not a definitive interpretation, but at least one which has caused some debate and provides OP's mother with some support perhaps.

Ididabravebravething · 03/08/2013 22:57

will look at the link thanks! (it wont load tho for me :()

OP, what type of church does your mum attend if you don't mind me asking? (is it strict)

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 03/08/2013 22:58

Confused What about what, sorry?

Ididabravebravething · 03/08/2013 23:01

OP, also is that what your mum said or implied? ie What about women not being best placed to dispense advice. Does SHE believe this?

Also yes, she will believe you are hell-bound, simply because you both have not accepted the lord as your saviour. I think she may be saying this in the hope that it makes you want to seek the lord while he may be found type thing....