Am I being an unreasonable bridezilla or is DM just up to her old tricks?

[Famzilla]

Am a regular but have NC incase IABU, don't wanna ruin my street cred and all that

DP are getting married next year. We're doing it on the cheap as we don't have much money and don't wanna get into debt. When discussing venues my parents suggested the country pub they play darts in, as it has a nice garden, restaurant and has had weddings there before. It is close to where I was raised so I already know the majority of people who work there. Perfect, I thought.

Told DM I would give the landlady a call. Don't worry she said, I'll talk to her. DM told me that the landlady was very excited at the prospect and to pop in today and see her. DP and I arrange to go in and DM informs me that her and DF will come too. I told them not to worry but they insisted, saying I'd get a better deal if they were there. I said fine, providing they didn't start saying "no, you don't wanna do that, what you wanna do is...".

The reason I said that is DM has form for being VERY controlling, and aggressive when I don't do as I'm told. A few examples are kicking me out of the house when I was 16. Disowning me when I refused to drop out of university after losing my job (DP was supporting me, but supposedly it was 'shameful' and 'dirty' to rely on a man...She hasn't had a job in 10 years). Saying that I was nasty and thought I was better than her because I refused to wean DD onto purees at 3mo. Telling me "you think you're really pretty, but you're not" when I booked holiday off my minimum wage job at 18 to do some modelling.

Anyways, I digress. When we get there it seems like noone is expecting us. The chef comes out utterly oblivious to what we want or what we're doing so I ask to speak to the landlady. As expected, DM and DF start going "what we want is...". I sit there silently until they have finished before saying "No, what we want is...And it's our wedding so". The landlady is very enthusiastic and happy with our plans. We don't want anything special, just a band and a big piss up really.

After the meeting, landlady and chef go away (appearing) happy. DM then starts with "you don't want your wedding at that time, you want it at this time because...", "you don't want your band inside, you'll disturb people trying to have a relaxing drink (in a different room!) it's give and take you know, you're being very selfish and they'r doing you a favour". Tried to explain to DM that they are a business, we are paying them a fair chunk of money for food and drinks and they'll be making a fortune on the bar. The landlady was practically rubbing her hands with glee when I told her how many guests we were having and accepting all their prices. I apologized for getting frustrated at the beginning and the landlady apologized to me for not knowing that this meeting was taking place.

But nope, I am "selfish and an embarrassment. Think you're better than everyone else and everyone should just bow down to you." She stormed off shouting that she couldn't stand me for another second. I went home and cried. I'm supposed to be excited about my wedding and she has shit all over that.

She has just text me saying I'm bloody horrible and that I never used to be like that, what has changed me?

I dunno. Am I being a bridezilla? Should I be a bit more laid back and let others have their way on bits of my wedding?

Sorry for the essay?

[ineedtogetoutmore]

Posted to soon i had to do sneaky tactics with my wedding in the end because I was so sick of fighting with pil. I just got really vague with details like oh not booked that yet, yes I'm having the car you've chosen (while secretly cancelling it and booking the one we wanted) very passive aggressive but much more preferable to the arguments every day we were having initially (just make sure your dn doesn't invite you to a formal meal the next day :-) )

[RabbitsarenotHares]

FGS do NOT appease her. It is NOT her wedding. Why does the timing of the wedding matter to her? It doesn't, really, it's just something YOU have decided not her. I bet if you'd originally said the time she is now vying for she'd want it at some other time. You can't win.

Stand your ground.

[pictish]

famzilla listen to me. She is poking you with a stick!! She is totally hopping from foot to foot trying to get a rise out of you.
You have defied her, and for that you must be punished. She aims to hurt you at the moment, so do not let her. Do not respond to any messages with anything other than "Nonetheless...I will still be sticking to my own arrangements for the wedding"

Do not react to her goading. She is atrocious!!!

[ImTooHecsyForYourParty]

Pkease don't back down

Do you want this life for your daughter! Because she WILL pull this crap on her.

Break the cycle.

This is another attempt to pull you back into line.

Ask yourself how much you or your daughter need people who treat you like this?

If they choose to cut you and a CHILD out of their lives because you want to make your own decisions, you are honestly better off without them.

How will you feel when youf mother is doing this to your daughter and you're teaching her to obey grandma for an easy life?

[RabbitsarenotHares]

I realised long ago I can never marry. My mother would want me to get married in a church - I'm not religious. She's already had tears over this fact (despite the fact I'm single so it's really not on the cards anyway). She believes I'll change my mind. My sister would tantrum the entire time over the fact that she's not the centre of attention. My graduation was bad enough - she threw a tantrum over the fact she wasn't in the middle of the family photograph (despite the fact it was MY graduation photo and I didn't actually want her or her husband there, let alone in the photo, but my wishes don't count), and complained about the restaurant I had chosen for MY graduation dinner, because she's not had a say in where we ate. I can imagine only too well how she'd behave at my wedding. My mother has said that I needn't invite my sister, but then I couldn't have a big wedding and invite the people I wanted as news of it would reach her and she'd throw the biggest tantrum known to mankind.

I've had over two years of counselling, however, and I'm only now beginning to play life by my rules. Only this week have I discovered that the world doesn't stop turning if I stand up for myself, and although I still fear there may be consequences over something I said last week, the fallout has been far smaller than I feared. This had nothing to do with my mother or sister, but I'm hoping that if it's worked once elsewhere I can use my new-found strength with them.

What I'm trying to say is, you are not alone in dealing with such behaviour. I know all about the strops, tantrums, and guilt-trips. The stripping of the self-worth and continually appeasing others at the expense of my self-worth and sense of being. But, I am slowly learning that things needn't be like this. Yes, it's scary, and I've yet to show my family the new me, but I finally believe that this can happen.

Stick to your guns. It is your wedding, your mother had hers. What can she do, really? Start believing in yourself, and do not engage with her. Deflect her guilt and emotions and eventually, when she realises she can no longer use them to control you, she'll give up. It will be painful, but it WILL happen.

Good luck!

[HelgatheHairy]

Other people have given much better advice than I ever could about your mother (DH and I ended up getting married in New York just the two of us after mine had a meltdown over my plans for a tiny civil service!)

I posted to BEG you to contact the landlady and tell her to accept instructions from you and DP ONLY. Once your mother realises than she's not getting anywhere with you I would be really afraid shed try taking over the wedding in a "I'm doing it for your own good" kind of way.

[DuchessFanny]

People talk about Bridezilla's but the parents are usually worse ime !
My MIL chucked several tearful wobblers ( I didn't want to wear her headpiece, I didn't want a 'ring cushion', she was angry that we were inviting people from my side of the family as it was taking up spaces for their side etc etc) my Mum physically attacked me and my brothers gf in a drunken rage the day before the wedding, then had a screaming fit at the end of our reception and my Stepmum booked everything without us ... Date, church, photographer, reception, flowers and car .. We chose what to eat ... We bitterly regret allowing this all to happen to 'keep the peace' and wish we'd done what my DBro did, booked it all themselves in a nice pub - it was gorgeous and it was theirs - don't back down !!!!!

[BeKindToYourKnees]

Excellent advice from RabbitsarenotHares

[FryOneFatManic]

Stick to your guns. If they really strop so much to try and get their own way, are they really the people you want in your life? Just because they are related by blood/marriage, it doesn't mean you have to give in to demands.

[Towanda]

Don't back down.

I used to get the guilt trips and tears and drama and tantrums if I didn't do as I was told by my mother. I always gave in for the easy life, to get my sister off my back as well as my mother.

I finally stood up to her and refused to cave into her demands earlier this year. It has taken 10 years of being with dp, a cancelled wedding due to her throwing a massive strop over our choices (threats to boycott, etc) and countless other dramas to find the confidence to say no to her. It feels AMAZING.

She (and my sister) have chosen not to speak to me since. I'm a pathetic bitch according to them but the feeling of freedom is so worth it as well as knowing that my dc won't grow up seeing it as normal.

[RabbitsarenotHares]

Thanks, BeKindToYourKnees!

Just to say, the person I stood up to this week is still speaking to me, so it doesn't have to end with your DM out of your life. It was incredibly painful at the time (ended up on the phone to the Samaritans for an hour and a half, but they validated my actions and made me feel a lot better about myself), and I wouldn't be surprised if the person involved pointed out the next day to the other person in the equation that what I'd said what a load of drunken nonsense, and thus lied his way out of it again but you know what, I don't really care! I've had my say and I can do it again and again if necessary. I did fear I'd ended a very good friendship, but it actually seems stronger than ever, so it can be done.

OP - would it be an idea mentioning to the landlady that you're thinking of moving your business elsewhere so as to get out of your mother's grip? Just wondering if the thought of losing so much money would insure that the venue really does listen to you and not your mother?

[pictish]

Noooo - this is not the pub's fault! Why drag them into this?

[Alohomora]

I agree with everyone else, do NOT back down - but feel free to politely say, oh yes, that's an excellent idea, then turn around and do whatever the hell you want.

In the end, organizing a wedding should also be fun and this way she'll simmer down a bit, you don't have the aggro of fighting with her while all the other things involved in planning a wedding are going on and she won't badmouth you so hopefully you'll be less stressed.

Keep the conflict levels low but stick to your plans!

[RabbitsarenotHares]

I know it's not the pub's fault, but as people have already said, it would be reasonable to mention to them that orders should only be taking from OP and her DF. But, depending on how persuasive the DM is, they may not realise the true extent of the problems.

Don't worry Pictist, I'm not totally happy with the idea myself, but.

[Supertrooper88]

How awful. My mum is on the outer edge of behaving like this from time to time. She has the odd mental blow out but seems to realise when she has pushed it too far and usually backs down (silently, no apology ever). The whole thing gets ignored and never mentioned again until the next upest and around we go again......

I have no advice on how to deal with your mum and family but would suggest you just disengage for now. Ignore her texts and dont reply. The second thing I would suggest you do with some urgency is pop back to the pub and see the landlady and do what your DP suggested. Tell her that no-one must be able to have any inpu or make any changes to your plans without the say so of you and your DP. Make sure she has both your work, home and mobile numbers and emails and she runs everything past you and contacts you if there is ANY doubt at all. You can if you like to save embarrassment (if thats how you feel) make a light hearted comment about how mums and family are so excited about the wedding they are being a bit enthusiastic and you are worried they may get a little carried away with the plans

If and when this debarcle blows over (if it ever does) then do not involve your mum in any more plans. Keep mum about everything. Tell her nothing.

Go ahead and plan your wedding how you want it.

[RenterNomad]

Cancel it. Don't tell them when you do get married. Seriously, why would you reward this sort of behaviour?

[FondantNancy]

Some of these mothers sound like my toddler on a bad day, and that's me being charitable. Why the fuck would anyone think their wishes should take precedence over a grown woman's (or man's).

OP definitely definitely don't appease her. I really would look at changing the venue, then your mother will be completely out of the loop. You don't owe her any explanation and don't get caught up in dialogue about this. Send her Morgause's reply and then take a giant step back. If she wants to run around in screaming circles let her do it on her own.

And, er ... congratulations.

[TheDoctrineOfAllan]

I hope that you get the wedding you want, OP.

[SarahAndFuck]

Famzilla you might have seem me posting about my PILs, who seem very similar to your Mum.

One of my biggest regrets about the falling out with them was that I kept engaging with them and trying to justify myself. It does nothing but fuel the fire.

MIL behaves very much as your mother does, FIL seems to support and enable her in all of her worst behaviour.

DH's three siblings know what she can be like and two of the three have regular fallings out with her. The other says, as your brother has said, that we should all go along with her for a quiet life as she is too old to change. She's 61, she was only 48 when I met her and had been behaving in the same way as your mother since DH was a child. He's the youngest, SIL is six years older than him and says she remembers when her mother was different, but DH remembers nothing but this sort of control and manipulation.

It has poisoned PILs relationship with friends and relatives for years now. They seem to develop friendships that are instantly very intense and then fizzled out quickly, usually with PILs feeling bitter and complaining that everyone thinks they are better than them.

Since I stood up to PILs we have had the same accusation thrown at us time and again. You think you are better, you think you are too good for us, you are ungrateful, we have done this for you, you should do as we say, after all we've done for you, why do you hate us, what have we ever done wrong?

DH has spent so long listening to all this and being told that their mental health and emotional happiness are his responsibility and upsetting them will result in depression and a mental breakdown. He finds it hard to admit what they are like and I know even know he would rather do anything he could to 'make things right' than admit that they are the way they are.

I read the Susan Forward books, Toxic Parents and Toxic In-laws and she has some very good advice in them. I remember one story about a man who dared to go skiing with his girlfriend at Christmas rather than go back to his Mother's house for the holidays. He won the holiday in a competition I think, but instead of being pleased for him his mother spent days weeping and crying to his siblings, and to him on the phone. And the siblings spent their time fussing over her and ranting at him, telling him he had ruined Christmas for everybody and it could be their mother's last one and that he was selfish and cruel.

He was in bits by the end of it, and his girlfriend was ready to leave him because of the stress of it all. Their holiday was ruined but it wasn't just the holiday. When you have someone like his mother in your life, it's all the time. Constant pressure and stress if they feel like they are not getting their own way.

Susan Forward speaks about how this is common in families. It's easier for them to blame each other and make each other feel guilty than it is to admit your parents really are this bad and do something about it. Especially as nothing you do or say will change your parents behaviour, so all you can do is change how you respond to it. If someone stops 'playing the game' it means everyone else has to suffer and they would rather blame you than the person really causing all the upset.

She says everyone likes to think they had a good childhood, and admitting you grew up in a house with controlling, manipulative parents is hard. I'd really recommend reading her books because it makes a lot more sense when you read her own words. And she has a lot to say about guilt trips from parents who have "only ever loved you and done my best" that I think you should read.

And our situation is strange. FIL has admitted to SIL that he cannot cope with MIL's stubbornness or selfishness and the way she has to have her own way all the time.

I appreciate that he must be under pressure. But the way he has responded to it is wrong. He's let her put that same pressure on all four of their children from a very young age and hasn't stood up for them once.

I often wonder what life would be like now if FIL had ever said to MIL that she had to stop treating their now adult children the way she does back when they were small.

Instead he has chosen to try and make his own life easier by siding with her when she makes their lives harder.

As a result, their eldest is an alcoholic and drug user who has never had an ounce of confidence or self belief. The next is emotionally reserved workaholic who only relates to people he can get something from and who has emigrated and gone pretty much as far away as he can get. The third has never had a stable relationship, just a history of boyfriends who lie and cheat. And DH has always had self-esteem issues and low confidence.

The one thing I can suggest is sticking to your guns but without getting into long justifications of yourself, as they will only ever be twisted and used against you. You've done nothing wrong and the guilt trip is not your fault.

[pictish]

Oh I agree with making clear to the landlady that wedding arrangements must be checked by OP and DP...but I wouldn't threaten to take the wedding elsewhere. The pub are innocent and will be doing the best they can.

My mum circulated the peripherals of this sort of behaviour as well. Not so intense as your mum OP, she sounds quite spiteful, but mine could be manipulative and controlling in her own way. She would cry and fuss when she didn't get her own way, and thought nothing of letting me know when she didn't approve of things I did, that were really not within her jurisdiction to opinionate on. She would treat me like an idiot and bash my self esteem to punish me.

(She definitely wasn't all bad btw - this behaviour got worse as she (I) got older.)

She died eight years ago now, and while I certainly miss her, I know if she were still around, I'd be having none of it. I see her conduct for what it was now...at the time I was still programmed by it.
I think our relationship would be a lot better for my boundaries, if she were here. I am so over being anyone's emotional punchbag.

[DontmindifIdo]

I think the first step is to give up on this venue. There's no way you can use it now. Quietly find one you like, arrange details with them, inform your parents.

You can politely tell the landlady of the venue your parents like that you dont think they are quite what you are looking for but thank her for her time.

With your mum now on, you need to hold her at arms length. Don't give her any "in" to your life. It's sad, but she's brought it on herself. You do'nt need to contact her or feed the drama she's creating, step out of it. Let her rant and rave to others, let her work herself up, do'nt get involved in it.

BTW - when you tell them about the other venue, present it as "actually, when DP and I talked about it, we agreed you were right, that venue couldn't do the wedding the way we wanted, so we've found somewhere else who can." Avoid her knowing anything until it's already decided.

If you do go for that venue, you won't look like a stroppy child, that's your mum speaking in your head! You're an adult, and the customer, explain your mother is "a bit of a nightmare who thinks there's 2 ways of doing things, her way and the wrong way" and they should ignore any requests that don't come directly from you or DP.

[HairyWorm]

Personally, unless the venue is amazing I would start looking for something else where DM is completely out the loop.
Organising a wedding doesn't have to be difficult but 'managing' the expectations of family members who think they should have an input can be utterly exhausting and quite stressful.

I think by her interference and how she's upset you at this early stage, she is going to be a constant PITA and I would put money on her trying to change plans direct with the venue. Start fresh elsewhere.

[anklebitersmum]

Do it your way. There's no excuse for her behaviour.

As almost everyone has said already, if you keep the venue (and if you like it why not?) then e-mail is the way to go for changes and confirmations arrangements wise.

I'm afraid I now announce what is going to happen as regards me and mine in a 'it's done' manner and mentally leaf blower any alternatives/resistance from Mum.
I learnt a long time ago that the resentment from 'doing as you're told' is far more damaging than the grumpus with the sulks in the corner - or even a group of grumpii.

Decide what you and DP want and do it. Don't give in to the emotional blackmail. You have a life of your own and it needs to be wholly yours not nearly yours.

Good luck

[HairyWorm]

Exactly what don't just said.
Create some distance, don't acknowledge her tantrums and feed her the info you want her to know. Don't engage in the emotional carp.

Good luck and congratulations!

[YouTheCat]

Just inform the landlady that all arrangements must come from you or your dp and if she is unsure she can check with you at any time.

Then book it, plan it and have a brilliant day.

Tbh I wouldn't even invite your mother. She'll just spoil what sounds like a lovely day.