to tell DD she can't visit this friend again

[missimperfect]

DD has just finished year 7 and just turned 12. I am finding it a bit of a shock getting used to being "out of the loop" when I was quite involved at primary school and knew the other parents etc. So maybe I just don't know the etiquette here and am being unreasonable but...

DD asked if she could visit a friend today - arranged by text. I have never met this friend. So I took her over to the house expecting to see the mum (or dad) when I dropped her off. This is what I would usually do. Quite often the parent will even say "come in" etc when we first meet.

But today we turn up, the girl answers the door and clearly just expects DD to go in and me to leave. No sign of a parent. I hang around for a moment and ask a couple of friendly questions hoping that a parent might come to the door if they hear us chatting, but no.

Now I know I will get slated for this but I am not comfortable - the hallway is dark, dirty and reeks of smoke. No other rooms are visible as there is only stairs and a closed door through to the rest of the house. Empty beer bottles piled in a box by the door.

But I decide to risk it - tell DD to call if any problems, say I will be back in a couple of hours to collect her. When I return to collect - again no sign of any parent. I ask DD how it went etc, seems fairly harmless although they mostly just sat around. She saw the dad once briefly in the kitchen. No one else.

So should I not let her visit again? I just don't feel comfortable about it but am I just being a bit precious?

I don't think you are being unreasonable. 12 isn't an age I'd leave a child unsupervised for hours. Your instinct told you the place wasn't right. I'm sure there was a little more to it than beer bottles for recycling, dark and smoke.

I wouldn't let her go again either. Perhaps try to find out what the girl is like by inviting her to your home first.

Sorry not that the rules are discussed now, that was when she was 12. And that after an unsupervised day at a friends aged 12 involved going out on the bikes, an accident, face in curb, teeth in a pot and not one of the parents involved less than an hour away to support them at the hospital . We all work full time long hours miles from home.

No what I suppose I was trying to say is it's not unusual certainly here to know the parents of friends... Or to drop them off at 12 or say hi to them. That's why now she's 16 I know most of them and actually when she started dating her last boyfriend his mum who i did not know rang me up to say hi and check I was ok with him coming round. I was really pleased and didn't think weirdo... just knew he'd been bought up in a considerate and sociable family and would probably have been taught good manners. If he'd been younger I think she would have dropped him off at the door, and said hi there.

ah sorry, OMG I misunderstood you; thought you were talking about the 16yo.

Agree with everything prettybird said about small steps.

Ime small practical steps like being able to negotiate public transport (if available) and fix themselves a meal does a lot for confidence building. Doesn't mean you can't offer them a lift or a lovingly prepared family meal at other times. But knowing that you can manage is good for everybody's self esteem.

Cory speaks a lot of wise words on this thread.

Spartacus - yup, it's OK, they mature a LOT in the intervening years well, those dc whose parents allow them to do, anyway.

MumotM How well will you have to 'know' the parents before your dc are allowed to go round for a couple of hours ? Even if you met them and said hello, it doesn't mean you know them. Are you going to insist on seeing their CRBs? Are you going to ask for a full CV - check out what they've done with their lives for the past 15 years ?

JustforLaughs - when I collect my dc from somewhere (which I do sometimes) I would probably meet the parents as you have to knock the door to let them know you are there, but I'd find it very odd if a parent got out of the car when they were dropping off a child / teen at my house. It's never happened (not even when they were in infant school tbh) and I'd just be wandering what they wanted if I saw them. Generally, if my secondary age dc are expecting a friend, they'd answer the door anyway, I wouldn't need to come running to the front door.

Am also shocked that some people wouldn't let their 12yr old be at a mate's house for a couple of hours when a parent was at work. Just how immature are your 12 yr olds ?

My 12 year old does all the things mentioned in Cory's post but I still wouldn't drop them off at a new friends house miles away from my own without saying hello to their parent(s) first.

Mainly this is because I would like to check that is a parent there and that they were happy for dd to be there.

My own daughter has just completed Year 11. Her birthday falls right at the end of the academic year. In just over two years time she may be getting ready to go off to university.

There is a huge amount to do in terms of getting young people to a point where they can manage their own lives. (I feel that lots has been done but there's masses more to do.) For many parents, overseeing adolescents seems to be exclusively about ensuring lists of exam results and other achievements (sports, music etc).

I do think parental fostering of autonomy starts at secondary school age and things like independent travel, independent use of leisure time etc are absolutely crucial. Yes, as a parent you are there in the background to advise, be a listening ear and step in if real danger is on the horizon. But the background is where you should - mostly - be.

whatever, I suppose it might depend partly on location.

we live within walking/public transport distance to ds' friends so if the parents don't want him there they can tell him so and he can go home- just as his friends would if I told them it wasn't convenient; it's not as if they'd be stuck and unable to get away.

if they can go into town or shopping without a parent, I don't see why being alone at home would be any more dangerous

"So, after being told you are being precious, by pretty much everyone, you are still sticking to your stance. Was there any point in posting?"

PML at the thought the OP should change her opinion because posters have told her too!

I am always cavalierly saying "oh, sling DD1 on the bus, she's quite used to it" and her friends' parents drop her round in the car . And most of them aren't allowed swimming without an adult.

mum808,,, er 10 and not started high school is a bit different from 12/13 who have.

OhMerGerd,,, seriously you don't allow your 16 year old unsupervised without a discussion. doesn't she have a part time job??? you do realise she is an adult in 2 years.

we almost lost dd year ago last feb in a supervised school trip accident. I force myself to let go now as she's 13 as its my job to make her a strong independant person capable of making the right decisions and striking out.

it would be far easier for me personally to wrap all of my kids in cotton wool but that would be selfish.

Even though my parents had me taking public transport on my own from age 8 to go to ballet classes, I'm not sure I would have been left on my own all day with my 21 month younger brother when I was 12 (and he would have been 10).

However, I think that has more to do with the fact that my mum was a teacher and therefore around during the holidays and FAR more importantly , my relationship with my brother ie we fought like cats and dogs and couldn't be trusted together for any length of time

Having said that, once we were a bit older (eg I was 14 and he was 12) we would be left for short periods without murdering each other

There was also the memorable weekend when I was about 16 (maybe 17) when Mum and Dad went away for the weekend and we worked out a scheme whereby I pretended they were still around (left out dirty breakfast plates, put lumps in the bed etc) so that my brother didn't have an "empty" (don't know if that is still the term for a party when the parents are way) Don't think he knows about that even now, over 30 years later!

Shock horror. Different people do different things with their own children.

But this isn't just about 'our own children'. It is about children and young people's rights to become a bit more independent and negotiate more adult situations.

It's ok, you parent your kids any way you like but I won't be dropping ds off at any old random house ta very much!

It is also about the people who will be dealing with them later in life. Their employers, their girlfriends, their university tutors who will struggle to get them to concentrate on their studies if they haven't come to grips with basic self care, the pastoral staff who will have to try to pick up the pieces.

Why the urgency? At 12 they still need parenting. There is plenty of time to learn about the working world. They still have 6 years left at school fgs, plenty of time to be learning about the world.

still can't breathe

I remember when I was 13/14 my dad used to drop me off at my friend's house (too far to walk) and they thought he was very rude because he just used to beep his horn from outside and not come to the door to say hello. I was mortified he didn't come in!

Will have to think a bit re dd, I've only just started letting her have a bath without me either in the room or in the next room (is that weird?? I didn't want her to drown, still feel weird about it now, I shout through every 5 mins to check she's alive).

We live too far from her school for her ever to be able to walk there, not sure if there's a bus.

Completely agree miss strawberry.

Six years is a surprisingly short time ime Strawberry if you think of how much has to be packed in. Ime many undergraduates arrive at university in a woeful state of unpreparedness. If even the basics like catching a bus or doing your own shopping are a new experience, there will be a lot of new experiences. And a corresponding amount of energy taken from your essay writing.

Confidence doesn't come with having tried something once or twice; it comes with years of practising and gradually getting better at things.

So do you interrogate the parents on the doorstep?

How can a quick hello tell you anything.

Point being Valium, it's not a random house. It is the house which one of your dc's friends live in.
I trust my dd's judgement over her choice of friends - probably because I've never tried to 'manage' that in any way. I also trust her instincts and her experience of being around different people over the course of her life, to know if there was a situation she felt uncomfortable in, to do something about it. I know she would do this because it comes up occasionally over the evening meal, or when we watch the News or when we watch a film, and we talk about things together.... 'What would you do if...?' type conversations.

Do you refuse to let your DCs stay at houses that don't come up to your standards.

Or if the parents look a bit scruffy?

Never in my life have I come across so many cotton wool wraped kids as I have on MN.

It's a different world to to mine,that's for sure.

Er...I personally do think you're a bit weird about the bathing, if you mean the eight year old, Spartacus.

I enjoy my 12 year old's growing independence. I love the fact she is getting to grips with the world.

motherinferior Mon 29-Jul-13 18:20:18

"I enjoy my 12 year old's growing independence. I love the fact she is getting to grips with the world."

Oh I'm glad I'm not the only one. So many people on MN speak of growing up, everything from reaching puberty to gaining independence, as if it was something terribly sad and threatening that was happening. But I'm enjoying it, because I can see their pleasure in their growing man/womanhood.