to tell DD she can't visit this friend again

[missimperfect]

DD has just finished year 7 and just turned 12. I am finding it a bit of a shock getting used to being "out of the loop" when I was quite involved at primary school and knew the other parents etc. So maybe I just don't know the etiquette here and am being unreasonable but...

DD asked if she could visit a friend today - arranged by text. I have never met this friend. So I took her over to the house expecting to see the mum (or dad) when I dropped her off. This is what I would usually do. Quite often the parent will even say "come in" etc when we first meet.

But today we turn up, the girl answers the door and clearly just expects DD to go in and me to leave. No sign of a parent. I hang around for a moment and ask a couple of friendly questions hoping that a parent might come to the door if they hear us chatting, but no.

Now I know I will get slated for this but I am not comfortable - the hallway is dark, dirty and reeks of smoke. No other rooms are visible as there is only stairs and a closed door through to the rest of the house. Empty beer bottles piled in a box by the door.

But I decide to risk it - tell DD to call if any problems, say I will be back in a couple of hours to collect her. When I return to collect - again no sign of any parent. I ask DD how it went etc, seems fairly harmless although they mostly just sat around. She saw the dad once briefly in the kitchen. No one else.

So should I not let her visit again? I just don't feel comfortable about it but am I just being a bit precious?

It must be a bit embarrassing to be in the doorstep and say to your child 'sorry- you can't go in that house!'
If you can make judgements on the doorstep why not accept that your child has had months to make a judgement and it is probably more reliable?

Agree with exotic, really are you going to quiz these parents about Internet access and film ratings.

true exotic,, my dds have big dss 10 years older than them.

amazed any friends are allowed past the door really.

actually if they could ban boys they would.

cory Is your teen totally passive? Can't she take responsibility for sticking to rules you have both agreed?

No, she is not passive. But she is not good at problem solving / thinking on her feet. We do lots of talking through 'what if' situations and if we have done that, she usually manages OK. But when something unexpected occurs she can get completely thrown.
(Before you ask, this problem solving thing is something we have strived to help her develop since we adopted her age 8, it is not due to us keeping her wrapped up in cotton wool).

She is getting better, and now at 14 is better at not getting into / getting out of situations where she feels uncomfortable. But I still like to meet her friends parents if given the opportunity and I don't think it is unreasonable for the OP to wish to. (Not do I think it unreasonable for you not to wish to).

In answer to thebody , I have no problems with you watching 15 rated films with your 13 year old. You know your own child. Just don't do it with mine without checking with me first!

Do you then also have to quiz your child afterwards to find out exactly what they have been up to?

^Things I might be concerned about at a house with insufficient supervision

• watching unsuitable films (ie a 15 rating for my 12/13 year old)
• free for all internet access (eg with no parental controls in place)
• older siblings and their friends doing who knows what
• friend having generally very different boundaries to my teen^

Perhaps you should compile a questionnaire for all parents of friends your daughter might want to visit, just to be on the safe side.

ds (12) is remarkably sensible re dvds and games. He knows friends have (for example) Call of Duty and that I disapprove of it. He may or may not play it himself when he is visiting other places (a couple of years ago I know he definitely wouldn't have as he got quite upset at a Christmas party when a slightly older boy was playing these "older" games but I am not so naive that I don't realise that things may change). We've talked about why I disapprove.

Having said that, I know that most of the time they play rugby and F1 XBox games.

He talks to me about the films he wants to see at the cinema. I'd have let him go and see World War Z even though it is a 15 - but instead they went to see Despicable Me 2 (a friend's 13th birthday party - they were sensible enough to realise that they probably wouldn't all get into a 15 film). As a result, I am also confident that he wouldn't watch anything silly in someone's house - or would leave if he felt he was being pushed into playing or watching something he didn't want to.

We've also had talks about porn and unsavoury stuff on the internet. Many of his friends have smart phones, so the only real way to protect him is to educate him.

We can't watch them all the time - so the only way to make him "safe" is to educate him and encourage him to develop his own sense of judgement and responsibility.

Ah. I think your situation is different from that of many of us, T&T; without wanting to pry, I would think that some of the things in her early childhood will affect the way she/you assess situations now?

BTW: I can't won't go and watch World War Z 'cos I am a wimp but I know that ds would be OK with it

I can understand your take if your dd is still struggling to catch up from a difficult start in life, Tween; that may mean totally different rules need to apply.

But that is a special situation: generally speaking, I think the age of 11 onwards should be when children are practising their problem solving.

thank god dds friends parents didn't knock the door and quiz them ( often in boxers and beer in hand) but very sensible really.

Do I quiz my child? No. Do I chat with my child about their day? Yes of course I do. Don't you??

And back to the point which some of the responders have missed. I said things I might be concerned about with insufficient supervision. I didn't say I would ban visits, or never let my child anywhere.

What I mean is, some parents may not be bringing up their child with the same values and boundaries. To me, if a child is visiting us for the first time, I think it is polite to go and say hi to their parent when they are first dropped off / collected. If another parent doesn't think it is polite to come to the door then yes I will judge your politeness. If my then 12 year old is visiting all day, and you were out all day and hadn't said you would be, then yes, I would not be happy. I would also wonder about the upbringing of your child and the boundaries you put in place.

Interestingly at 15 it wouldn't be nearly so much an issue for me, so maybe between the ages of 11-15 there is a continuum, and some parents are ready to let go earlier than others. Maybe also some children are ready earlier than others.

Being grown up is not a race, as long as a child has reached appropriate independence by 6th form / uni / work, I really don't see the rush.

pretty... 'the only way to keep safe is to educate'.. exactly right.

You may be right. DD1 is maybe a bit behind the curve on problem solving skills. And due to some early experiences she, and therefore we, are maybe more sensitive to some things. However I do know other parents of her friends, who also like to meet the parents, have similar views on not randomly letting visitors watch over-age films etc. So it really is not just me (and the OP), though we are clearly in the minority.

"Being grown up is not a race, as long as a child has reached appropriate independence by 6th form / uni / work, I really don't see the rush."

My worry is that I and my colleagues seem to see an increasing number of students who have not reached appropriate independence by the time they get to university. Two areas in particular seem to be getting more and more of a problem: the habit of taking independent decisions and the realisation that once you have taken a decision the results are your reponsibility.

We are very hot on responsibility in our house, and actions/inactions having consequences.
But we have to go step by step and put the building blocks in place, my DD does not respond well if thrown in at the deep end.

I am shocked when we have threads about parents phoning universities, or job placements and the like. There is no way I would even think of doing something like that for a second. I am confident my DD will be ready 6th form etc when she needs to be. She just won't be ready for 18 films age 14 etc).

(For those who haven't adopted. Think of it this way for us: You have had 12 years to prepare your 12 year old for the bigger world. We only had 4, and in that time had to do alot of un-learning too).

TandT, your situation sounds very different to the OP's. You are working towards your DD's independence at her pace. OP sounds more like micro managing her DD.
That's why I was wondering if people quiz their children on what they have been up to. If you put that many conditions in place, you must somehow monitor them.

You sound brilliant, TandT and as if you have your particular situation completely sussed. And I totally get what you say about the rest of us having had all those years to prepare.

Yes I quiz my children...sometimes it is like getting blood out of a stone.

But on the whole I trust my children, and they know that losing that trust would not be to their advantage. I also randomly text and ask them where they are and what they're up to at the moment, especially if I haven't heard from them for a while.

TandT your approach is obviously right for your dds situation.

I remember being horrified over 20 years ago (before I was even a parent myself) when a colleague's wife at an evening corporate hospitality event said her ds was disgruntled 'cos she hadn't been able to take him to his rugby training at his local rugby club and she wouldn't let him cycle himself.

He was 15 and this was in Headingley.

This was/is the sort of child that cory then has to cope with when they are thrown in the deep end when they do make it out in to the big wide world of Uni/FE/HE/work.

No way. You have no idea who the people are or what harm could come to your daughter there. I would say exactly the same if you described a clean home with air-freshener and milk bottles by the door. She's 12 not 16. Trust your instincts.

"Interestingly at 15 it wouldn't be nearly so much an issue for me, so maybe between the ages of 11-15 there is a continuum, and some parents are ready to let go earlier than others. Maybe also some children are ready earlier than others. "

I think this is almost certainly true.

In my case, I don't worry too much about the boundaries of ds' friends' parents, because I know that he knows where our boundaries go and he knows perfectly well that if he oversteps them I will hold him responsible and nobody else. And if he gets into trouble with us for letting himself be led, he knows I wouldn't have the least sympathy.

Imagine that would be quite different with your dd's background.

FrauMoose you can't be serious that's all ok!

Maybe some of my fear comes from personal experience - my best friend's parents were lax to say the least - giving us bottles of wine to drink in a caravan on the road overnight (where we stayed on our own) at 12.

Letting us watch 18 horrors, at 13, going away and leaving us in the house for the weekend at 15 with beer, cider, wine etc

Letting us go to the pub on our own (when they knew my parents would have had a fit) when we were 14. Letting us walk home from pub, 2 miles down dark lanes, on our own at 14.

Her mum driving us places when totally pissed. As in her mum was pissed, not us

No wonder I'm terrified