To be angry on behalf of my friend's daughter?

[GiantHaystacks]

I have just come back from my friend's house and feel really pissed off on behalf of her dd1. My friend got married to a guy she met at university, they had two dds and both became successful in their respective careers. He became so successful that he decided to reward himself with a 20 year old new wife who was a catwalk model. He then proved how much he loved his dds by moving to Paris, thereby ensuring he had fuck-all to do with their daily existence. He does, however, make himself feel better by inundating the dds with a slew of expensive toys and clothes as that obviously compensates for him being a self-absorbed prick.

The reason I feel angry is that my friend's dd2 is too young to fully understand what is going on but her dd1 (10) refuses to acknowledge the gifts her father sends her and has to be dragged kicking and screaming to visit him for the school holidays (where he again gets to prove how fundamentally decent he is by spending throwing money at her). My friend is making her dd1 attend counselling sessions about this and is busy devising strategies to 'ensure dd1 maintains a good relationship with her father', even though this comes at some personal cost to her own relationship with her daughter and even though she has been left with all the hard work involved in bringing up children. I think she should be pleased that her dd1 can see her father for what he is and has the self-respect not to be bought off with gifts and holidays. Why should dd1 be forced to spend time with someone who has lost her respect? Why does dd1 have to be counselled out of following her own instincts in order to placate her father's need to feel like he's still a good guy?

I feel so angry that this girl has a strong sense of self-respect but it is being ignored. It's horrible that a 10 year old is already being gaslighted and by her own parents too.

I feel sorry for the child. Clearly she is distressed and for good reason. And it is bloody annoying that it all falls to mum to pick up the pieces. And no I don't believe in forcing the child to maintain contact with her dad. Having watched my sister do this and the terrible effect on her children. Ugh.

I agree Bridget

The mind boggles

To me it sounds like what often happens after parents split up. The dc spend a lot of time with one parent and see the other less frequently. I think the mother is right to encourage a relationship, even if her reasons for doing so are financially based - encouraging a relationship would be the right thing to do even if he paid nothing. When the dc are old enough (maybe 14+) they will decide for themselves whether they see their dad or not.

I'm divorced and my ds is now an adult. I'm sure my ex loves our ds but he would never have agreed to spend 2 weeks with him, because he's selfish and it would have involved far more effort than he was willing to make. This father may love and miss his dc but be perfectly happy just to see them during the school holidays. Sadly some parents choose not to see their dc at all, so he's better than those parents IMO.

You seem to be trying to turn it into girls being taught to be obedient to a male figure, but the situation would be the same if there were 2 sons and their mother lived abroad and saw them in school holidays. It's about encouraging a relationship between a parent and child. The child is too young to appreciate the consequences of giving up that relationship. I also don't think a parent 'throwing money at them' is a valid reason for thinking that the parent shouldn't see the child. Most adults with living parents would agree that their parents aren't perfect but that doesn't mean they would want to end their relationship with them.

There's a lot of things that the OP doesn't know, how often does he email/phone etc?

I'm in the same situation as your friend. He treats our child as something he can pick up and put down when he chooses. In ten years of him being absent he's seen ds for a total of one and a half days; one full day (with his mum) and a couple of one hour slots (when he's usually hungover) when he can fit our child in. Phone calls and emails are rare and there's been one letter (in ten years). Our child is now 14 and hasn't seen his father for 3 years, which is his choice. I've supported him and made sure he understands. The last time he saw his father he screamed and swore in his face. He wants ds to go and see him for a week, I'd rather send him to spend a week with the checkout guy in Sainsburys as he has more contact with him.

There's no chance that you know all of the facts, he could be a doting father who calls and emails daily and takes an interest in his child's life, but this child will resent her mother for sending her to stay with him if this isn't what she wants. Sounds like he needs to build some bridges with his dd.

It's not your place to be angry on behalf of anyone when you're not involved in their situation in any way. I wouldn't like you as a friend insinuating that it was being done to protect finances. What a horrible way of thinking.

I think you sound far too personally invested in this situation. You might think you're seeing what's happening, but you're not part of the family.

Honestly, if the mum was slagging him off at every opportunity to her, she would be in the wrong to do that!!

Is this the message we have for girls - stop crying, stop moaning and let someone buy you expensive clothes, instead of treating you as a full human being?

It seems like it, doesn't it. :(

I agree with you op, the girl obviously doesn't want to go. And making her is only making her lose faith in both her parents.

But I don't think there is much you can you. Except perhaps be there when she is older & needs someone to turn to because her parents have ruined their relationships with her. If she is told he is wrong now, she will have no reason to believe her instincts when she is older, which will cause many issues in future relationships.

This isn't "someone", this is her father. All the more reason, imo, to listen to her. Her first relationship with a male & everyone is giving her messages that she must do what she doesn't want to do in order to please him. I see that as quite a dangerous message to give to a young girl.

Get this thread deleted - it's totally out of order.

Also you sound very bitter yourself. Sniping that the mother has money as her best interest, not her DD.

Nice friend.

Get this thread deleted - it's totally out of order.

Also you sound very bitter yourself. Sniping that the mother has money as her best interest, not her DD.

Nice friend.

Agree with other posters:

this thread should never have happened

the people in it are far too indentifiable

you are not being a friend to the child or her mother

you are investing too closely in a situation that is not yours

and I would add:

you are sending the message that walking away from a marriage you are not happy in is some kind of emotional abuse and that trying to deal with the situation in a dignified manner amounts to gaslighting

these are not messages that are likely to do her much good in life

This thread is a typical example where the Op is offended and outraged on behalf of someone that has fuck all to do with her. It's like borrowing someone elses emotions because there is fuck all exciting to harp on about in your own life.

Counselling is to help this child come to terms with all sorts of change and feelings and is a very sensible move on the part of the mother.

Her relationship with her father must be facilitated and made as easy as possible by all the adults in her life until she is much older. Giving her the power to veto, as you suggest, wil be harmful in the long run for many reasons.

You seem fixated on the material aspects of this family dynamic.

It is facile to suggest that spending time in Paris with her father can be reduced to mere financial blackmail, unless he locks her in a room and posts clothes and money under the door.

A mother who encourages her DC to have relationships with a NRP is doing the right thing; your assertion that she does so in order to gain financially is insulting and shows a very shallow grasp of the dynamics involved in any relationship breakdown.

Any messages she's being given seem to me positive:

• accept that relationships change and accept expert help to enable you to deal with those changes.
• Parents are never perfect but with effort and understanding you can maintain and build relationships.
• your mum's beaky mate has a warped agenda and ill-focused anger issues of her own, don't listen to her bitter, odd take on your life.

"Her relationship with her father must be facilitated and made as easy as possible by all the adults in her life"

It's a shame her father didn't think of that when he pissed off overseas with another woman.

Having said that, yes the thread makes the family quite easily identifiable. I'd get it pulled

Oh, and what differentnameforthis says.

If this situation did not involve a nrp but a pwc who produced this response in a child everyone would be screaming emotional abuse and insulting the op for not getting involved.

Suppose for a moment the father left and showed not one iota of interest. Wouldn't that be worse?

According to your thread DD1 is bright enough to question the Santa Claus role her long distance dad adopts. Her mother has not reacted to the collapse of her marriage by a blanket refusal to let her DDs be in contact with their father. I still think counselling is a positive step.

Later your friend may meet a new man and form a new relationship. I suspect if DDs have any misgivings about a potential stepfather they'll handle that prospect better if they know where they stand with their bio dad.

As you refer to the finances, (in such a pointed way that makes me wonder how you view this friend), if her mother figures the best way to keep the maintenance coming is to foster good relations with her ex and their DCs can you really condemn her? I am sorry if that offends your moral principles but the mother is better placed than you to know how her budget is.

Incidentally the girl is 10 now but by 14 she could feel differently about visiting her dad in a foreign city and sampling a different life 4 weeks a year.

Feeling upset on your DD's friend's behalf is no bad thing. Children benefit from adults aside from birth parents looking out for them. Please don't trample on one mother's efforts to look long term at the bigger picture a 10 year old may not fully grasp.

This is none of your business and you should not be posting it on a public forum.

Children who have divorced parents are often angry and act out because they can't articulate how they feel really. Because it's complicated.

The mum is doing the right thing. Sounds like the daughter is hurt the dad left and is in her own way, punishing him because she can't articulate how it has made her feel. He is an arse - but that's not your problem.

Blimey, you cannot possibly know everything that is going on in that family, you see some but not all. Tbh you don't seem to be much of a friend.

would you feel any differently if it was the mum who had walked away from the relationship, with the child, and had then moved hundreds of miles away?

I have a friend in a similar situation Op. Her Dh left her after an internet affair and promptly moved to the U.S. My friend did her utmost to support her Dd who felt abandoned and fobbed off with gifts etc. 4 years later things really have improved, her Dd has made friends inthe U.S and enjoys going and little by little her relationship with her dad has beccome more honest and loving. I totally understand your concerns but think that it is possible for this Dd to still see her dad AND to express her strong feelings.

As its not the mother who is trying to stop contact, I wonder if its a close family friend that hates the father and is feeding in to the problem.

If the daughter doesn't want to visit her father she should not be made to.

If counselling allows her to better understand her feelings towards him, great; if she feels, in the fullness of time, that she's ready to stay with him, great.

Overriding her wishes and forcing her to visit may result in her learning that it is her place in life to make sure everybody else is happy, at the expense of her own happiness and sense of autonomy.

YouAreWinning - WOW - I think this has to be the first time ever Chippingin and I have disagreed Yes, it was a bit of a shock!!

The OP has every right to feel angry on behalf of her friends DD. Just as someone above said, we all have the right to feel angry about the Bedroom Tax, even if it doesn't affect us directly. Empathy is not bad thing.

Calling the OP 'unhinged' because she cares, says more about the poster than the OP frankly.

and what differentnameforthis said.

I'm with Chipping on this; some of the posts on here are vile. She's being a good, empathetic friend. Sounds like the poor child's mother is doing all she can to support her child, it doesn't make Giants 'unhinged' because she cares. I wonder what you'd all make of my friends who have told me to support ds and not force him to see his father, in fact, I started a thread about it when it happened and every post on there supported me!

You're a great friend, Green.