to think this is a joke re nurseries.

[bloodynurseries]

Am SAHM to 2 year old DS and 3.5 year old DD.

Soon after DD turned 3 we decided to send her to nursery 2 mornings a week, to get her ready for school and help her socialise with other children.

We applied for the 2 state nurseries near us, both of whom wrote back within a couple of months to say they did not have a place to offer us with no indication that we would be kept on a waiting list. There are no other council nurseries particularly near us and travel is an issue so decided to apply for a private nursery, the thinking being that we would pay the fees and they would be paid back at the end of term.

So we got a place, 2 mornings a week, at a really lovely local private nursery.

It was too good to be true sadly. DD went today for settling in day and manager mentioned that a 'session' counts as 3 hours and as their sessions are 5 hours long we would have to pay for 2 hours ourselves so 4 hours a week. It's an expensive nursery and this is going to amount to nearly £200 per month. We cannot in any way justify paying this and it had not occurred to me that there would be any cost involved.

I hope I don't get flamed for being entitled, I'm not, but our local council website clearly states that every 3 year old is entitled to 5 free sessions a week at nursery. Our dd is now 3.5 and unless we take her to a nursery out of town (looking like the only option) or pay money we don't have she isn't going to get a nursery place before she goes to school. Feel so upset about this and would appreciate any advice.

Just say - no she is entitled to 15 free hours so either 3 days full sessions or 5 days for 3/5 of a session. If they say no report to council...

thisway is right if a council is really struggling to get enough places it will have to be amenable to a certain extent to the nursery otherwise many nurseries could easily withdraw and still fill all their places

it could for instance not charge for snacks but still give snacks to those children whose parents paid a snack supplement, as there is no obligation to provide snacks, and if questioned they say we do not provide snacks but if extras snacks are provided for we will then administer them

this is not the only area governments have tried to force private providers to do stuff they do not wish to do

a few years ago many private dental practices would treat the children of patients on the NHS, then the government in its wisdom ( about 2008/9) that they wished these practices to see adults on NHS too, nice idea but they had already decided to be private practices seeing children on NHS as concession so the government withdrew child only NHS contracts thinking these practices would then see NHS adults. However any one with just one particle of commonsense would have realised that a viable private practice would not reduce income to see adults on NHS and being told they would not give child contracts they promptly stopped seeing any patients on NHS including the children they used to see. This was absolutely obvious

it is the same with nurseries in areas with under provision in state sector if they enforce rules too rigidly they will lose even the state provision they already have as effectually in these nurseries the extra hours wra around care is already subsiding the state provision and if the make it more onerous some will just leave the scheme mostly in areas were it is already difficult to find a place anyway

while agreeing that the letter of the law is not being followed surely a bit of commonsense leeway in these areas is the way forward rather than these nurseries closing their doors to state places completely if state places were better funded it might be easier as it might if they could charge for snacks as technically no -one will starve in 2.5-3 hours without food

xylem8 - unless I'm confused the OP is paying for an extra 2 hours per day at two days a week. So that would be 16 hours a month. £200 would be £12 an hour.

My private nursery in Canary Wharf don't offer any funded hours/places at all. I enquired when DS turned 3 expecting our monthly bill to e reduced and they simply said they didn't take part. I wasn't impressed but there wasn't much I could do about it.

Edwinbear that will happen more and more I fear.

edwinbear that was my point if imposed conditions are not economical viable nurseries will not take part in the scheme so leaving people worse off than if they had allowed some leeway

Reading this, I'm very confused.
What is a state nursery?

Round here wer have preschools (take from 2.5 up during school hours) and nurseries, generally 8-6 from 3 months up. They all charge.

Are they 'private' nurseries/preschools? The preschool dd has just left is a charity and ds's nursery is a business.

Is this unusual?

State nurseries are run by the council - so nurseries in children's centres, nursery classes in Primary schools, state nursery schools.

I've not read every post so I may be missing something here but...

Every child age 3-4 is entitled to 15hours free nursery/preschool care...so if your DC is 3.5 and only does 2 mornings a week and each session is 5hrs long then you're only using 10 of your 15hrs so why are they trying to charge you for 2hrs each morning?! Are they not in the government funded scheme,because surely if they weren't you'd be changed for all the hours your DC is there?

My dd goes to a private nursery for her full free 15hrs a week (3x5hr sessions) and the only fee we pay is for food which is 75p a day...(the free 15hrs only applies during term time and not during school holidays so she's currently not attending.) I'm very confused as to what the deal is with the "5 free sessions a week" thing and people talking about restricted (3) hours so parents have to "top up" the extra money for 5hr sessions

biscuit your nursery could decide that the free hour sessions were 9-12 monday - friday term time only so your child has to attend those sessions to get the full 15 hours the nursery does not have to be flexible so if you choose not to send your child on wednesday they lose those 3 hours the nursery is under no obligation to give you 2-5 on tuesday instead

anything before 9 or after 12 is not in the government scheme and therefore the parent has to pay it fulfills requirements by offering 15 hours free but there is no choice regarding these hours

hence if someone goes from 9-2 they get 9-12 free and have to pay from 12-2 plus cost of lunch,

a nursery can offer flexible hours like afternoons instead but it does not need to

the nursery in my local primary gives 12-3pm for 3-4 year olds and the preschool year is 9-12 no choice whatsoever take it or leave it your 3 year old can't do mornings your rising 5 can't do afternoons there is no lunch provided no wrap round care and no flexibilty

so my DD attends nursery at private school 8 miles away ( the next nearest as I work I can't do those hours esp when they change from term to term) which takes the sum of the worth of vouchers off the terms bill wrap round care is paid for as used so if she does 12-6 after nursery this thursday i pay for 6 hours but I do not need to reserve this so if next thursday i can pick up at 2.30 i would only pay for 2,5 hours this flexibilty actually saves money in the long run as i am not paying for a child minding space that i only need sometimes

Ah right! Thanks for explaining that sarah I understand it now! My private nursery offered sessions of either 8-1 or 1-6 if we wanted to do 3 half days or we could of had 2 full (7.5hr) days,both options were available mon-fri so not many resistrictions at all really.I just assumed all nurseries (state and private) offered the same hours/sessions!

''TinaSurrey Fri 26-Jul-13 00:11:07

It is only the rubbish places, or those prepared to make a loss, that can afford to offer just the funded hours- cheap staff, cheap resources and cheap equipment

This is not true. Private/independent schools around here offer the 15 hours free in their nurseries. They have top notch resources, excellent staff etc. They (like other nurseries that claim early years funding from government) are required to do this - I was told it was a requirement of them having the funding. Parents who want more hours pay a high rate for the extra hours but you are not obliged to. My nephew goes for 3 sessions of 5 hours (including lunch) without charge.

I was under the impression that any nursery claiming funding had to offer genuine 15 free hours. If they only have a set number of 15 hr places available that's allowed but they can't say a session is a minimum of X forcing all parents to pay a "top up".''

Yes Tina, they probably do make a loss, which they make up some/all of by charging a higher per hour rate above the 15hours, or higher cost for children under 3. It is quite simply how it works. 3 quid an hour isn't enough to pay for good staff and equipment- it just isn't, something has to give.

And re. the thread title, the only 'joke' here is the pathetic amount the government offer in return for the 'free places'. Talk about the best way to drive standards down- make the amount given just enough to cover young, unqualified staff and rubbish resources- yeah that's great for the kids in the settings!

Biscuit - some nurseries try to make extra money on top of what the govt gives them for the funded hours by saying for example that the funded hours are 9-12, but the session is 8-1 - so if you want the funded hours you have to pay for the extra 8-9 and 12-1. They aren't supposed to do it, it's against the regulations, but some councils seem to be turning a blind eye.

My son attends a private nursery for 3 hours per day. They do offer longer sessions with top up fees if you wish.

Most preschools have very long waiting lists. You have to put the child's name on the waiting list at birth and if you leave it until they are 1 you are unlikely to get a place in our area.

magnumice I wasn't giving an opinion on the p&l situation I was correcting the statement that said only rubbish places with cheap staff, cheap equipment etc give the option of attending only for the funded 15 hours.

My example demonstrates that not to be true. The local nurseries are not rubbish (or loss making for that matter) but sensible and savvy by offering top rate nursery care giving 15 funded hours and charging the required rate for additional hours to ensure they have good staff, good equipment and good demand.

Whatever you or I or anyone else thinks about the governments payment contribution for the 15 funded hours the fact remains that the rules of a nursery being able to claim funding are that they make 15 "free" hours available without further payment.

My nursery tried this on. In the end, I asked them to breakdown the 'equivalent' of the 'free' seasons into hours, then, I purely book the set amount of hours.

Ie, if the session is only worth 3 hours and you get 5 free ones, that's 15 hours a week. Just book 3, 5 hour days, still 15 hours. My nursery let us do that because you have to fill in a form to give the nursery permission to claim thd 'free' sessions from the government. So they just claim in hours, not sessions.

Good this makes sense lol