to think this is a joke re nurseries.

[bloodynurseries]

Am SAHM to 2 year old DS and 3.5 year old DD.

Soon after DD turned 3 we decided to send her to nursery 2 mornings a week, to get her ready for school and help her socialise with other children.

We applied for the 2 state nurseries near us, both of whom wrote back within a couple of months to say they did not have a place to offer us with no indication that we would be kept on a waiting list. There are no other council nurseries particularly near us and travel is an issue so decided to apply for a private nursery, the thinking being that we would pay the fees and they would be paid back at the end of term.

So we got a place, 2 mornings a week, at a really lovely local private nursery.

It was too good to be true sadly. DD went today for settling in day and manager mentioned that a 'session' counts as 3 hours and as their sessions are 5 hours long we would have to pay for 2 hours ourselves so 4 hours a week. It's an expensive nursery and this is going to amount to nearly £200 per month. We cannot in any way justify paying this and it had not occurred to me that there would be any cost involved.

I hope I don't get flamed for being entitled, I'm not, but our local council website clearly states that every 3 year old is entitled to 5 free sessions a week at nursery. Our dd is now 3.5 and unless we take her to a nursery out of town (looking like the only option) or pay money we don't have she isn't going to get a nursery place before she goes to school. Feel so upset about this and would appreciate any advice.

randommess you might find if you collect them after 3 hours you will lose place

We have 3x 5 hr sessions too.

I've heard many managers saying that they're very close to just saying "Stuff the free places! It's just not worth it!" and pulling out the whole scheme. Most decent nurseries make a loss on the free hours. Why should they do them if they can't get money back somehow?

Oh and actually he will be going 3x5 from September, but have stated he will only get 9 hours free. Where is the info to challenge this?

And whilst they're not allowed to force a top up, they aren't forced to allow you to just do term time. You sign a contract which doesn't allow you to take them out for school hols and retain your place. So it's pay for 50 wks or don't sign up. Sign up and be aware that only 38 of those wks are funded.

Thiswayforcrazy, you might find they are offering the funded hours as 3 hr sessions only so they would have to offer this but if you wanted 5hrs they could charge you

It could well be that there are no spaces in the state preschools.

We applied for places for our two before their 2nd birthdays, which they took up the term before they turned 3.

ThisWay you should be paying at the moment, but if he carries on with only ten hours in September then you shouldn't be paying anything.

I've not read the replies sorry. in my council area you can only use free hours in council nurseries, not private ones.

You should be given a place in a council nursery, if that means travelling a bit further that's just something you'll need to sort out.

if you don't get your nearest school choice it's not like you can just choose to go private and expect to be reimbursed for it, so why should this apply to preschool.

did you miss the council pre school application deadline by any chance? Maybe that's why you weren't offered a place?

DD's nursery only offers full days (9-4, 9-6 or 8-6). When we get our bill the grant is taken off and we pay the rest (it's also open all year round, which is more than they get funding for). Works for me, school nurseries that only do half days, term-time only are crap for working parents.

ThisWay - your council would be the best place to start. They have a statutory duty to ensure all children have access to a free place.

The funded 15 hours were implemented to help working parents. The idea being that the parent choses how they would like the hours, e.g two full days a week, or four short mornings etc.

My son's private nursery is completely flexible. They are open from 8am-6pm and parents can chose any number of options as there are short mornings, long mornings etc etc.

Nurseries are not supposed to restrict parent's choices of hours by charging top up fees, as mentioned this is illegal. They can however get around this by charging for 'extra services' or extra curricular activities (French, yoga etc).

The funding isn't about sessions, it's about hours. So if they offer a 5 hour session (unusual) I would ask for 3 x 5 sessions, so you would be fully funded.

I pay for his place at the moment, and his younger brother, as they've been there for over a year already. I'm just confused as to how it will work in September. I will call the council tomorrow.

The funded hours were never about helping working parents - they are about providing all children with the opportunity to access pre-school education. The funding has been made more flexible to accommodate working parents though.

Could you send her to three five hour slots a week? then you abide by their five hour ruke and you get the 15hours?

Your county/local council may have published details of the funding, such as in Surrey, there is a code of practice document, as well as other documents.

In some areas there may well not be many providers, thus why going to a different nursery/pre-school may not be an option. However do check with your council with regard to a list of providers who accept the funding. As already mentioned, some childminders also accept funded children and more may well do so once the regulations change (possibly as soon as Sept 2013 though think we are awaiting confirmation).

Hellenbach - are you sure that is right? I thought the funding was for up to 5 x 3 hour sessions per week (used to be 5 x 2.5 hours) and additional hours required, above 3 hours per day, would need to be paid for, even if you only utilised 2 out of 5 of the 3 hour sessions. As others have said, I do not believe this was anything to do with working parents?

Very interesting! Some good insight on this thread.

Everything Helen says.

My DC's nursery is private and they allow you to chose ANY hours you like, regardless of sessions (and they do 6 hour sessions). All you have to pay for is lunch or tea depending when the child is there.

You are entitled to 15 hours term time or 11 and half hours for 50 weeks of the year.

I would challenge them on it and read their policies. Sounds very dubious and unfair.

Oh and they don't lose any money, it's funded, the government pay.

It is simply 15 hours per week. We offer mornings, afternoons (3 hours per session), or all day (2 x 3 hour sessions). If we have spaces, parents can choose whichever combination of sessions suits them best.

Bellblot - the government only pay about £3.50 per hour to settings (plus any SEN additional payment). For some settings, their costs are greater than £3.50 per hour meaning that they lose money on the funded places. However, I feel very strongly that if a nursery accepts the nursery finding, the. They should follow the rules and should absolutely not charge parents any kind of top up. The 15 hours should be absolutely free to parents.

Bellabot that's not true for all nurseries, our hourly cost/rate is £4.50, the council pay £4.09. Doesn't sound a lot but soon adds up and depending on area the difference can be a lot more

Total I believe is 570 hours per year. How that gets split will depend on the local authorities rules, some will do it over 38 weeks (term time), some will let it be split over a full year. Some will do 3 hours per day, 5 hours per day over 3 days per week, 2/3 days 7am-7pm max of 15 hours. It all varies between providers and local authorities.

Thus find the local authority guide for your location, then see what that lets providers do. If you can not find the guide for providers online, contact your local authority Family Information Service and ask them if they can e-mail it to you, or give you some assistance.

The funding amount varies between local authorities. More Affordable Childcare I think has proposed that the funding is standardised but I am not when/if that will happen.

In Surrey, funding amount from Sept2013 will be £4.15 for 3 & 4 year olds.

Thanks for the info Littlefish. I understand now why they would charge extra. However, the inflexibility and the the fall down in communicating the information correctly isn't great customer service IMO.

our council nurseries are the same....you get 15 hours...but that is in 3 hourly sessions 5 days a week...you cant compact them into 2 or 3 days...and any extra you have on those days have to be paid for. I think because they are so over subscribed/for organisational purposes??

anyway...although you have to be offered a place, i dont think there is obligation for a place to be found which offeres exactly the hours/pattern you want