To have confronted this poor excuse for a mother?

[TeddyPickleStick]

So I'm sat at work, window open. I hear a commotion outside so get up and look out the window. There is a heavily pregnant woman with two small children - a boy of around 3 and a girl of maybe 4.

She is screaming at the boy .. ' you fucking piece of shit, what the fuck are you doing? ' and ' Come on you little prick ' etc etc.

I shout down ' Don't do that! Don't say that! ' in complete shock. ' Who the fuck are you? Fuck off ' she shouts back.

I then deliberated on what to do. I felt really angry so ran down the stairs onto the street but she had gone into the bank. And then I ground to a halt and couldn't work out what to do.

So did nothing more. I mean, what CAN you do? Only a bit of swearing after all eh? I have no idea what I would have done if I'd managed to confront her anyway.

I detest this, really hate it. If you swear at your children like this, in the street, then you are a shit parent.

Aren't you?

What a depressing insight into a Social Worker's professional view of the swearing at and humiliation of children I.e typical of the 'uncouth' 'poor'?? Sorry is this for real? It's what 'poor' children should come to expect?? It sounds like the 'profession' hasn't made any advances in it's practices since the 70's in this country- it's a fucking joke if this is the given 'thinking' on mental abuse of children!

Miss Marple

"It wouldn't bother me one jot as she would find that I have a mouth on me too!"

I'm not suggesting that being told to fuck off would necessarily bother you, I'm just wondering what you would do after she had told you to fuck off. It sounds as though you would have a slanging match in the street then?

"Are you saying that because these women may be as rough as bears' arses we, as a society, should be just as cowed as their unfortunate children and social workers are?"

Err. No. That's not what I said, and not what I'm saying. That's a bizarre interpretation of the question "What would you have done?"

" I hope not because in that case, you will soon find that they are running the shop because they have the biggest gobs and behave in the most threatening way."

Running which shop? The country? The way children are spoken to? Why would that be the case?

There isn't done magic wand or some place full of rainbows and roses you can whisk these kids off to without causing them any distress.

It's from what some kids are growing up in. Some are in real danger and resources are focussed there. Others are getting spoken to like shit, which is awful, but what else can be done other than support the family to be a bit better, a bit less shit.

Would I like my own child to be with a parent like that?

What do you think? If course not.

It's not ok for another child to have shit parents either. People aren't born into equally fair lives.

missmarble

To use your analogy with dogs

There are not boundless resources to investigate cruelty
There are degrees of abuse and it has to be investigated
Dogs won't be removed in all cases - attempts will be made to educate owners, support them with housing or mental health issues
Owners who are banned from owning dogs still manage to own new dogs

... sorry, pressed post too soon.

Wanted to support MrsKeithRichards' assertion that none of this is as easy or straightforward as you seem to be arguing. Even your analogy with animal cruelty shows that.

poltergoose my answer is YES.

and like i said before, i speak from very very personal experience.

It's not easy. I'd love to make sure everyone was a fantastic parent, that every child was treated to a fulfilling, carefree life, that abuse didn't exist.

PolterGoose, your focus on the 'rough' description is a a Red Herring. The child being subjected to Intentional emotional suffering and humiliation is the 'issue' and I'm not sure how such destructive behaviour can be explained away by the 'Middle classes' not getting it- please, are you joking? Abuse is abuse is abuse but as has already been pointed out- childrens' rights in this country are abysmal!

fwiw I would of done the same thing, sadly there's not a lot else you can do, ss are extremely stretched-often sws are managing a caseload of 60+ children each(!) its no wonder therefor that mistakes are made and things are not picked up on/not considered serious enough for attention.

I myself had to make a report recently, despite some v serious physical abuse and on-going mental abuse + ALOT of neglect, nothing was done and the case closed within 3 wks(!!) what shocked me further was that the dcs were not even put on the "at risk register"!! ...the follow up phone call from the sw even made my mum feel "scolded/told off" for phoning in the first place(!!!) absolutely beyond shocking seems nothing has changed in SS in the last 20+ yrs ....it wouldn't put me off reporting again, but I think there would be others whome an experience like this would make them not bother next time

sadly there will be a string of victorias, and peters for the foreseeable future until SS take a hard look at their practice of "child best at home if possible" as someone else said unthread, rspca take dogs away when they've been neglected/starved/mistreated, why the fuck do we then not give our precious children the same opportunity!??.............its all down to money.........average £1000 to keep a child for a week in a childrens home, less for a child in foster care......they don't want children in care, because it costs to much.

what really frustrates is my experience of childrens homes-most kids are there because parents cant manage their behaviour......so a 12 bed unit taken up by 9/10 little sods and 2/3 who genuinely need protection from their parents, its crap

Ive reported your post mrsrichards. Missmarple makes a considered argument and you just end by telling her to fuck off. It's a pretty piss-poor state of affairs really isnt it?

I fail to see anything considered in her argument

Golden no, no, no they wouldnt have been judged ANY differently. Not for calling their child a fucking little prick, piece of shit etc. Im sorry but that's absolute nonsense.

Looking at 'best practice' in countries that do get it right more often might be a start? I an entirely different mindset about these issues needs to happen in this country for things to improve, the way we regard children- they should be seen and treated by the Law as people in their own right and consequently be protected by the Law. It is not going to happen under this government though.

polter-its not just about retraining- one individual cant change an entire organisation like that, its about guidelines and policy that needs to be amendend/reviewed etc

I thought about trainging in sw but I would want to do a lot more than I would be allowed to, so ultimately I think I would end up to frustrated!

I know a lot of intervention tools came over from nz and Australia, think they were considered very forward thinking, not sure if that's still the case

Ageofgrandillusion, sorry but what is nonsense about what I've said?

Awful to see.
More common than any of us realize.
And you know what....
My friend who is a social worker says that even when there Is stuff that is going on in families that is not healthy for the child, 90 per cent of the time the child is better off staying with the family. The shrink who deals with adult survivors of emotional and physical abuse, who she works with....says the same thing.
Suffice I was shocked but it made me think differently.
We all assume that kids are better off in care, if they are in situations that we would all agree are undesitrble, but the truth is that according to this social worker often time in the care system is more damaging than time in the family with whatever dysfunction exists.
The way the shrink put it.....no matter what disfunction is going on, so long as your life is not actually at risk, nobody is going to love you like your own family, even if that comes with some form of abuse, apparently the love tht will in most cases still be present with the abusive stuff, is all important to the developing child, s sense of self, and they just rarely get that sense of being loved in care.

So I am not saying that what you did was not right, just that we are naive if we assume that kids will go from a far from ideal childhood with their Parents to some sort of halcyon existence in care. Apparently it is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to a child in terms of damaging them for life.as the shrink says....no one will love you like your own blood will.......just an opinion. But the opinion of a professional who deals with people recovering from damaged childhoods spent in the care system.

But I would have said something too. But it is also the case that whilst that woman in that moment was being abusive and it is likely there will be other moments like that too, she may also be very loving at other times and in the end that child is better off with that combination than being removed from the mother into a system where there is no guarantee anyone is going to come and love them. Try to take some solace in that if iris making you depressed. Sadly a lot of humans find it hard to control their emotions and tempers and children will sadly be on the end of those humans ' failures as people, but it does not mean thosesame foul mouthed, at times abusive parents, cannot at other times provide the love every child needs more than anything to survive and prosper, even if it goes hand in hand with the non loving treatment. But not nice to see and we see the tiniest amount if that......in private people behave in all sorts if ways that would make us very sad indeed.but we don,t see it like you did today.