To have confronted this poor excuse for a mother?

[TeddyPickleStick]

So I'm sat at work, window open. I hear a commotion outside so get up and look out the window. There is a heavily pregnant woman with two small children - a boy of around 3 and a girl of maybe 4.

She is screaming at the boy .. ' you fucking piece of shit, what the fuck are you doing? ' and ' Come on you little prick ' etc etc.

I shout down ' Don't do that! Don't say that! ' in complete shock. ' Who the fuck are you? Fuck off ' she shouts back.

I then deliberated on what to do. I felt really angry so ran down the stairs onto the street but she had gone into the bank. And then I ground to a halt and couldn't work out what to do.

So did nothing more. I mean, what CAN you do? Only a bit of swearing after all eh? I have no idea what I would have done if I'd managed to confront her anyway.

I detest this, really hate it. If you swear at your children like this, in the street, then you are a shit parent.

Aren't you?

Work like that happens all over.

You just never read about it. It's so difficult to quantify though, impossible to say what work like that prevents.

you might be right. I dont really have a knoweldge of it, so yes I guess we think "Baby P", "Daniel Pelka" and we have no idea of the day to day stuff

I think that story about the girl is a lovely one, we need you guys

Ours ready to remember the fuck ups.

Agencies need to get better at sharing information. Police, health, education, community work, social work - I think one big database is the answer. I have no idea if that's even possible.

That should say everyone

MrsKeith A family friend is a SW and she works so hard! I can imagine it's a difficult job.

I've worked in law enforcement as well as health care, so have mainly seen SW from the crisis side.

I think the "one big database", while an interesting idea, would be unworkable. Too much confidential information that widely spread would unfortunately be ripe for abuse.

You're right, it wouldn't be workable at all. It just seems communication breakdowns between agencies is one of the biggest issues.

Those things that you do seem perfectly reasonable and I'm sure that they must work sometimes for some people.

My idea, which I have repeated, is that society intervenes before it reaches the 'crisis point' that you describe by adopting a zero tolerance approach to child abuse in public- a bit like the shaming campaign that made it such a no-no to drink and drive.

Why is that a bad idea? Why should these dreadful creatures feel that they have cowed the rest of us into silence? if we all did it, it would soon become beyond the pale to fuck and blind at kids on the street.

Obviously, that isn't going to work with everyone and sometimes there will be a crisis before they are stopped.

Obviously again, my suggestion to 'kick the shit 'out of these creatures isn't going to work and I can see that that would never be condoned as an official approach although, speaking only for myself, that is what I would like to do to them. Filthy excuses for parents that make the child's life a misery.

Gaol perhaps. certainly something that underlines that this abuse is worthy of punishment because again, I don't see why children should have to live with scroats who would not be eligible to foster, simply because they have a biological link.

You found my remark, 'you can help a damaged child, you can't help a dead one' distasteful. But whether it is or not, it is a fact and unfortunately children do die in these so called homes.

As a society, as women and mothers, we can make some of these creatures stop by sending out the message that it is so unacceptable, they will be called on it. Those that don't stop, the hard cases, well then it will be over to the social workers and good luck with them!

Brilliant post Mrs KeithR! Thank you for helping to make society better for all of us ...

ps. And I would hope that social workers take the attitude when dealing with these parents that they have very limited rights and, if they do, they come second to the rights of their children.

in other words, they can save their sob stories and tales of their own awful childhoods until the children have been safeguarded; that they are told in no uncertain terms that their children will not be living with them until they have sorted out the issues that make them so abusive towards their own children.

Over to them to sort out and unless, the Social services have come into a pot of money, they will have to sort it out by themselves. Anything else and it looks as if the lunatics are running the asylum.

I urge everyone not to walk by when you witness the sort of affair that the OP did.

Society cannot stop abusive parents. The law struggles to contain them. It's fucking horrendous.

But you are still avoiding the issue missmarple

Shaming in public might work for that instance, in that second, but then what? Society as a whole does seem to think that behaviour is deplorable. But that won't make it go away.

Of course the children have to come first, Missmarple. But I've heard that most children would rather stay with their parents, even when the parents are abusing them, because the alternatives appear even worse to them. So I would say that it is absolutely crucial to work with the parents Plus that parent might have other children after the first couple have been taken away.

There IS jail for child abusers. That's currently already law on the books.

MissMarples I think the problem here is that you're looking at it from a punishment side, whereas ideally SW can be helpful on the proactive/prevention side - which is by far IMO the best method from the outset. Obviously there will always be situations where SS is brought in at crisis point, however, there are also situations where the parent needs support, encouragement, and education to see that there are better ways to handle things and that they CAN deal with things in a better manner. This obviously is better for the child as well. This is a vital part IMO of SS.

I do get frustrated when I see people blasting away at a snapshot picture of just an instant of someone's life when they don't see everything else leading up to it. Yes, the behaviour is wrong, but equally perhaps if they get the proper support, the behaviour will not be repeated. Isn't that best for all involved?

Agree with Trigglesx. All of us would feel horrified and angry with an adult who spoke to a child like in the OP, or hurt a child, in front of our eyes. We all feel protective towards helpless children. But I don't think all this anger and contempt helps anyone.

Exactly, Solo. The OP admitted that on an occasion in public she had stood and screamed at her child after an incident that had frightened her. So someone else could easily have just seen her screaming at her child and posted the same thing about her.

The judgements, the self-righteous stuff... it certainly doesn't help the child. Help the parent to help the child in many cases.

Missmarple - 100 pc agree with your posts.
Solopower1 - you say most children would like to stay with their parents. Well so what? They dont know any better. Being dragged up and abused by shit parents is only going to lead them into one kind of life - and they will go on and repeat the cycle. At least in foster care they have a chance - with the right support - of turning things around.
Trigglesx - so we bloody well should be looking at it from a punishment side, certainly in many instances. The whole helping the parents, showing understanding, softy-softly approach has categorically not worked. The instances of abuse and neglect we see and read about shouldnt be happening in a country as rich and advanced as the UK.

Good lord, back down already. I didn't say never look on the punishment side. Cripes. Let's have an even hand here. I said that sometimes and many situations, it's beneficial to help support parents so that it DOESN'T reach a crisis point.

If you're going to go off over a post, at least read it properly.

Oh.... and with your "damn the parents, pull the kids and to hell with everything else" attitude, I'll just hope you're not working in SS.

Sometimes you have to put a parent into prison for child abuse, or remove the child from an abusive parent. Absolutely agreed.

But in most cases, I would think that what would be more useful to everyone - parent, child, society as a whole - is to teach the parent to be a better parent - whatever that takes.

You're delberately misinterpreting what i said Triggs. Tis very childish.

I mean help the parent to be a better parent (eg might involve getting housing sorted, help to go to college, as well as parenting skills etc).

Kind of agree solopower. But what about an example as given by the OP - a parent abusing their child, not physically but in a way which will doubtlesss - if repeated over a lengthy period - have a hugely negative effect on the child. Surely if a parent is at a point where they have to be 'taught' that it is wrong to call their child a fucking little prick, it is best all around to move that child on?

Surely if a parent is at a point where they have to be 'taught' that it is wrong to call their child a fucking little prick, it is best all around to move that child on?

Seriously? You think it's best to sever the parental ties, instead of making an effort to teach that person to be a better parent? Or help them deal with their stress better so they're not taking it out on their child?

Ideally, most people will know it's not appropriate, but some have grown up in that environment and are repeating what they were brought up with. Others may not realise how damaging it is. Surely you can see that helping the parent helps not only that child, but keeps the family together and helps any future children in that family as well.

And just for the record, I don't deliberately misunderstand anyone.

ageofgrandillusion the transition into care isn't easy on a child. Emergency foster care, hearings, care plans, trying out relatives to see if kinship care is an option. Can you imagine the whole host of negative feelings that throws up for the child when they don't understand why they can't be with mummy. It's horrific. Children aren't swept with ease into lovely little homes just waiting for them. With all the good intent and every effort that's made to make the process as smooth as possible, there's always an impact. That often lasts.

If a parent can be supported to make changes, sometimes under duress, it's much more preferable, as grim as it may be. We're not all lucky enough to have the perfect upbringing. That's the shit truth of it.

Ageofgrandillusion, yes, it will be having a hugely negative effect. Like everyone else on here, I hate thinking about the damage that is being done every minute to children in that situation.

But what MrsKR said, really.