To have confronted this poor excuse for a mother?

[TeddyPickleStick]

So I'm sat at work, window open. I hear a commotion outside so get up and look out the window. There is a heavily pregnant woman with two small children - a boy of around 3 and a girl of maybe 4.

She is screaming at the boy .. ' you fucking piece of shit, what the fuck are you doing? ' and ' Come on you little prick ' etc etc.

I shout down ' Don't do that! Don't say that! ' in complete shock. ' Who the fuck are you? Fuck off ' she shouts back.

I then deliberated on what to do. I felt really angry so ran down the stairs onto the street but she had gone into the bank. And then I ground to a halt and couldn't work out what to do.

So did nothing more. I mean, what CAN you do? Only a bit of swearing after all eh? I have no idea what I would have done if I'd managed to confront her anyway.

I detest this, really hate it. If you swear at your children like this, in the street, then you are a shit parent.

Aren't you?

yellow I don't judge you at all for being scared, I would be, but you know you have to report to SS: it's the right thing to do.

There is nothing wrong whatsoever with punishing abusive parents.

As for leaving vulnerable children with them while encouraging them to become better!

Presumably. or maybe not, there must be a point at which social services say about abusive parents, this far and no further and then remove the children. If that is the case, they are making value judgements all the time.

Where I differ hugely from some posters is in the viewpoint. I do not give a stuff about the parent if they are abusing their child and nor should anyone else. They need punishing, not a shoulder to cry on.

When a person is convicted of animal cruelty, they are punished and in most cases not allowed to keep animals again and yet we don't extend the same criteria to those who are cruel to children- it seems we are only interested in helping them while their victims have to continue to live with them.

In some cases, the children will be so used to the abuse that they won't want to be taken away but you know...they are children and that is why adults have to make these choices for them.

If social services would not allow these inadequate or cruel (or often both) adults to foster, why would they think it acceptable to allow other children to stay with them simply because of a biological link or a child, who knows no better, wants it.

I am rather tried of reading defeatist comments that say calling them on it in the street when we witness their filth would do no good or might be a snapshot. All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good women to do nothing.

Of course, some won't give a toss but others will. If I hear a child being called a 'fucking cunt' on the street by another woman, I will intervene at the top of my voice.

And you know what, I don't care if she has a gas bill she can't pay, her arse is hurting her, she was abused herself or any other tale.

Nothing gives anyone the right to terrify or de humanize a child and if they are doing it in public they have a hard neck and common sense, yes common sense, tells me that they will do far worse in private.

Well done, OP.

Mrs Keith Richards, please don't parrot again...what would I do. It is becoming rather like a silly mantra with you ad I shall try to rise above you by ignoring more of the same. The above is what I would do and quite frankly, I think it is a far better approach than anything you have put forward.

FFS, nobody has said that it's acceptable for parents to abuse their children. God save us from drama queens and those that think the world is utterly black and white.

I am rather tired of people screaming out the injustice of it all without stopping to think that nobody is advocating allowing a child to be placed in danger. People are talking about being PROACTIVE (get a dictionary, look up the word FGS) and getting help and support for the parent BEFORE things get out of hand.

I suspect this is a lost cause in trying to get the point across. I have to admit to being a bit bemused that the OP was just like missmarples, but then admitted she had done the same thing (screamed at her child in public) - however, she was unwilling to admit that the same judgements could apply to her. And now she is notably silent, having exited the thread. Living life with blinders on must be difficult.

NOBODY is perfect, people make mistakes. The point is to help parents improve their parenting that need it so that it doesn't reach crisis point.

missmarples you feel free to ignore those who have a more balanced and realistic viewpoint, you've done it so far, I don't anticipate any change in future. I, however, am not interested in further conversation with someone who cannot even see that their "all or nothing" viewpoint is flawed. Life is not simply "black and white."

Yellow, I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but if those children end up hospitalised or worse because the abuse has escalated, everybody who stood by and did nothing to prevent it will be partially responsible. There is no good excuse for not reporting what is happening to those children. Please, just do it now.

Yes we can't 100% say she is always a shit parent, but i would lay good money on the fact that those children do not have a good parent for the majority of their life.

YANBU op. I would judge too.

missmarple: you would "intervene at the top of your voice".

and then what?

Probably, like the OP, you would have been told to fuck off.

Then what would you have done?

Verlaine - yes she may well have been told to fuck off. But at least that is one person letting that parent know that what they are doing is socially unacceptable. If i see somebody mistreating an animal i intervene - i have done on two occasions in the past. Why any different with a child? That's just my view anyway, some may be happy to walk on by. Fair enough.
Trigg there is a deeply conceited, 'i know better and that's that' tone to many of your postings which is far from helpful. You talk about this as not being a black and white issue and yet when somebody offers an argument you dont agree with you dismiss them and say you are not interested in further conversation. It would be nice to think that you might be able to recognise and acknowledge the contradiction in such a standpoint, though i wont be holding my breath.

Age Actually that's not true at all. I fully acknowledged that there are times when punishment of child abuse is necessary. But I refuse to categorically state, as some have, that it is the ONLY way to deal with this issue, because that is not true.

Nobody again said they were happy to just "walk on by." But many of us have also said that simply shouting at the parent is not very helpful either. Someone who doesn't realise what they are doing is not acceptable is going to shout back, then go home and say to their friends or partner "Can you believe the nerve of that woman, interfering when I'm telling off my child?!" and they will not "learn" anything. A SW can sometimes bridge that gap, build up a rapport with the parent and give them support and education so that the behaviour changes. Again, this benefits not only THAT child, but any other children the parent subsequently has - which IMO is better than sitting around waiting for them to reach crisis point or taking away the next child they have.

Are you able to recognise that as well?

Age - they might learn that you think it is socially unacceptable - whether it will influence their future behaviour is a bit more doubtful. I don't think it's wrong to give them your opinion - I might do the same myself - but to suggest (as missmarple seemed to be doing ) - that this is somehow better than the sort of positive intervention from a SW seems far more arrogant and conceited than anything Trigglesx has said.

Why would they take any notice of you?

I think what actually needs to happen is a total overhaul of child protection policies in this country, something more akin to how the Swedes approach child protection. In Sweden children have rights as individuals that not only protect them against physical harm but also mental abuse. If you witness maltreatment in public you're expected to report it. The situation the OP describes would be defined as mental child abuse. The priority in Sweden is always the child and what is best for the child.

MissMarple well done.

And in case the post has been lost in the midst if this thread . He ran out in front of a car that missed him by millimetres. To try and liken that to a rough as fuck woman screeching at her boy that he's a prick and can fuck off is tenuous to say the least

I didn't call my little boy a name or swear. I screamed at the top of my voice. Nobody passing by thought I was abusing him.

Really? You don't know that, unless you have developed psychic abilities. Anyone could have thought "jeez, look at her screaming at that kid" and judged you to be a shit mum. YOU say he ran out in front of a car, but someone else might not have seen that. They may only have seen you screaming at him. And besides, in your own words....

I don't give two tosses about her bad day/ bad upbringing/ money troubles whatever.

It makes no difference if this is just a few seconds out of an otherwise charmed life.

There you go. Pot, kettle. End of.

Verlaine.

It wouldn't bother me one jot as she would find that I have a mouth on me too!

Are you saying that because these women may be as rough as bears' arses we, as a society, should be just as cowed as their unfortunate children and social workers are? I hope not because in that case, you will soon find that they are running the shop because they have the biggest gobs and behave in the most threatening way.

However, if other women were about I would hope that I wouldn't be the only one to have challenged her. Naturally, if only a few of us are going to do it then obviously, they will continue on their merry way, making a society where the rest of us are too frightened to challenge the scroats!

In the same way if the Don't Drink and Drive campaigners had been frightened to speak out because of a few rough arses who didn't like it, then it wouldn't have got off the ground.

Incidentally, I and I hope most mothers, most women for that matter, don't have to carry out a survey, risk investigation and chew the cud with assorted professionals in order to be able to tell the difference between Ted's situation and a vicious mother.

Well done OP!

dont go Teddy you stick to your guns, youve got support here too.

but at the end of the day its the children needing remembering, not all this knife throwing and forgetting the welfare of children.

This thread is no longer about that mother and her child, is it?

Not to mention the slightly bizzare repetition of the sentiment that we, as women and mothers must make a stance.

Mrs Keith Richards, please don't parrot again...what would I do. It is becoming rather like a silly mantra with you ad I shall try to rise above you by ignoring more of the same. The above is what I would do and quite frankly, I think it is a far better approach than anything you have put forward

In repeating myself because you're not actually making any suggestions beyond shouting at people if you witness this type of thing. Which is all well and good, might even stop someone in their tracks, might even make them think twice about losing it in public again.

But it's not actually going to make them better parents is it? At best it will mean you won't witness a public bollocking, it won't make the issue vanish.

Do you understand that?

polter meanwhile there are a million or more Baby Ps out there.

and I know from personal experience abuse and neglect and nothing done about it cos ''we need to take this case to my superiors, well get back to you (i usually chased THEM up), we have you on file etc etc...''.

meanwhile lives were almost lost and it was a miracle the abused survived. and only saved by a 'good samaritan'.

OP yes, the parent you describe is a shit parent.

There is no excuse whatsoever for behaviour like that. End of story.