When cultures Clash..I refuse to give my father-in-laws name to my son.

[orangebee1]

Ladies, last week i delivered twins, one boy and one girl. My husband is Greek and tradition here dictates that the grandson must be named after the grandfather.
I am English and it's unthinkable to me that i can't choose my son's name. I am happy to have the grandfather's name (Yiorgos) as a middle name, but certainly not the first one and am insisting that my huband and i find a name we BOTH want.

I delivered by c-section and after two days (when i was still in the hospital recovering!) what should have been a joyous occasion turned into tears and arguments over the name choices - i wrote the names my husband and i had agreed on on facebook and his family saw and all hell broke lose.

My husband was so taken upset by his family's reaction, he was crying and distressed and finally changed his mind about the names.

As yet the babies are unamed and referred to as "the boy" and "the girl".
His sister says to me "you have three children now, what is it to name one of them after the grandfather - he has only one life and waited all of it until this day for his name to be passed on".

Am i being unreasonable??? Would you name your child a name you really do not like at all to keep the peace???

I'm confused. If this was a condition upon your marriage, you had 9 months to have this fight. Have you not said anything your entire pregnancy? Surely you knew this was coming and addressed it with the family? I think if you spoke with the grandfather, etc. and HE was the one who could announce to the entire family he decided his name would be the middle name as the baby is only half greek -- he would have not lost face and this would not have become the big family joke.

There are many, many people in Greece who do not follow this tradition. There is absolutely no need for them to make such a big deal about this - they could all shrug their shoulders and accept that your traditions are different from theirs and you could all just enjoy the new additions to the family. Given some time, that may yet happen - but your dh needs to be brave enough to support you!

My DH's family have an eldest son of eldest son tradition that for some reason was started about 3/4 generations back. I was adamant that I wouldn't be using it but did call DS a name with the same first letter as a small compromise. SIL also used the name as a middle name for her child.

It wasn't a cultural issue though just a family thing.

What about your cultural traditions? The ones that say the mother and father generally choose the name together without reference to family names, should they so choose? Your husband presumably knew you were British and not Greek when he married you and had children with you, no? You, your family, and your heritage are being completely marginalised. Why is his heritage and his family more important than yours?

That alone would irk me, but for him to say, a week after you've given birth to twins, that he would 'lose a bit of respect for you' if you don't capitulate to his family's demands would send me into orbit. I don't envy you OP, but I think you should stand your ground. They are trampling all over your boundaries which is rude and disrespectful. Just because its a tradition doesnt make it right, or compulsory. As a feminist I am very offended by this tradition which is terribly patriarchal and dismissive of the mother of the child and the mother's family.

So your dh has said he would "lose some respect for you" if you don't. How does he feel about you losing quite a lot of respect for him if he breaks his word to you and forces you to do something YOU BOTH AGREED not to do? Whilst allowing you to be bullied by his family?

Gosh, it's lucky you love him!

Anyone who has been involved in bullying you while you are in the process of recovering from a traumatic birth is a complete Twonk,

I am really angry on your behalf, what fucking shitty thing to do,

say, "If I hear anyone mention anything about my name choices again, not only will I drop any family names but I will avoid having any contact with them",

and do it, No means no, if they don't understand, teach them.

Fucking asshole how dare they taint such a special time, selfish shits, and who wants to be associated with selfish bullies?

Do they normally get away with bullying you? or do they think that because you are in a low physical position they can get away with it?

If you have asked them to stop and they haven't I'm sorry OP but they do not have any respect for you, ask a relative or friend to keep the vile bullying away so you can enjoy your beautiful new family.

many congratulations by the way.

Jux - i hear what you're saying, it is lucky i love him. I was of course so angry when he said that, i was still in the hospital (in Greece) without my family's help or his family's, managing getting back on my feet mostly by myself because my husband had to tend to our other daughter.

The point i'm making is i went through what i feel is a lot (the babies were put in the intensive care at the time) and i was JUST ABOUT coping emotionally and managing, the hormones and emotions where everywhere BUT i did hold things together, but when my husband said about "losing respect" it very nearly tipped me over the edge, and i thought how much i wanted to leave and just take our children and return to england.

I do worry now that we will split over this, his family have no idea what damage they've stirred between us, i am full of anger that my children are now referred to as "the girl" and "the boy" (by my husband too) even though their names were decided!!

Blimey, you already have a DD? That makes all this focus on the one boy even worse!

You poor thing OP, I had a very disappointing partner after DD was born and it's incredibly hurtful.

It does seem there is a large gulf between your two standpoints on this.

HOW FUCKING DARE HE.

He talks of respect when he has just gone back on an AGREEMENT made in order for you to agree to have children with him? You made your wishes clear, he agreed, he's now changed his mind and is doing the little tilty-head 'oooh, well I might lose resepct for you if you don't let me blackmail you?

Hah!!! Lose all the respect you like, you nasty blackmailing little shit!!

I'll tell you what real loss of respect is. It's seeing a husband UTTERLY FAIL to have the guts to stand by a promise made with his wife. It's seeing a man UTTERLY FAIL to protect his wife, immediately after giving birth, from being bullied by her inlaws. It's seeing a man UTTERLY FAIL to propritise the needs of the immediate members of his family at their most vulnerable time. You have lost your milk because of this stress?

I would never forgive him for that. Name? I'd be looking at giving the baby my maiden name as a surname, something he utterly hated as a first name, and Fuck You Daddy as a middle name.

TWAT.

I think I'd now be saying to him - 'well, the name seems to be the least of our worries. It goes without saying that it won't be the grandfather's name, because I think that if I had one more thing I needed to forgive you for, after this week, it would just be a case of throwing in the towel and booking tickets back home. The best thing you can do now is keep your shit-stirring family away, apologise like it's going out of fashion, and hope that I don't decide to pack and leave as soon as I'm on my feet. Oh and by the way, if I hear you refer to as 'the boy' one more time, he won't even carry your surname. Understood?

refer to our son

Talkative Jim has it spot on.

Have you told your H how this is making you feel? What was his reaction?

you know what's even more disrespectful? this is all over ds name but in the maelstrom they're refusing to acknowledge dd2. are they hoping if you give in on ds they can name her too or, as a girl, is she just worthless to them. arseholes the lot of them. including your h

oh, and is be very tempted to say 'which boy/girl?' every time someone called them 'the boy/girl'. and then make a pointed 'he/she has a name, it's Fred/Delilah'

YANBU, at all. And I don't know how your DH had the nerve to say that he's lost some respect for you, that's just unbelievable.

I'm married to a Greek and have Cypriot origins, so completely understand how difficult this must be. We gave my (deceased) FIL's name as a middle name to DS1, which was commented and frowned upon by many, but I couldn't care less and DH backed me completely.

Just a thought: are you having DS baptised? Could you put Yiorgos as a middle name on his birth certificate, but then baptise him as Yiorgos? A part of the importance of the tradition is for the FIL "to hear his name in church". You'd have to find an understanding priest who'll go along with it, but it could work.

For the record, I'm refusing point blank to have DS2 baptised (I'm an atheist and thought I didn't care with DS1, but it turns out that I do, very much so) and it's causing no end of trouble. But I'm his mother and I decide, with DH, how to raise my children.

YANBU OP your op is being a twat.

How about sending a family email or letter.

Tell them you love them (if you do) and tell them you love being a part of their family but tell them that you are very, very upset at being put in this situation. Tell them, with no apologies and no explanations, that DS's name WILL BE BabyOrangeBee1 and that you DO NOT ever want to ever hear of it being discussed again.
Then say something pleasant, bland and chatty.

Ps congrats on the babies

BUT he would "lose some respect" for me.

that is emotional blackmail and not worthy of a reply

congrats on your twins

I'm so bloody angry for you that your husband said he would lose some respect for you. Arse. I'm sorry as I know you love him but he has treated you so badly and he is being a total arse.

Stick to your guns. Your children have names. They are not 'girl' and 'boy'. They were agreed.

Your husband is being a total and utter prick. How dare he tell you he's lost respect for you- after you have carried and given birth to his children in traumatic circumstances which you're still recovering from, and he's the one caving in and reneging on your agreement because he can't stand up to his bullying family! I'd have told the lily-livered sap where to stick his respect!

Your son already has his grandfather's name as his surname.

You could always tell everybody that your son's name is Horace (or whatever you agreed) Yiorgis Lastname , and if FIL wants the same name as his grandson he's more than welcome to change his own name.

Your children have names. Don't allow them to be referred to as the boy and the girl. Insist on their names being used. And register the names as soon as you can and before anyone else does it!

call you DD Yiorgis and really stick it to them

Yiorgina, surely.

I'm Greek. Lots of families do this. Just as many don't. Your fil is being a typical bully, probably because he has been told since birth that the sun shone out of his arse and women were there to do what they were told. I believe you should stand up to bullies. Tell your husband that you will leave him if he doesn't stick to his guns and back you up. You will have to shout at your father in law. Scream "I have given birth to these babies and if you want ANY relationship with them at all you will call them by the names I give them you ridiculous old man! Or I will take them to the UK and that's that!" . I feel you need to shock him.

Do not give yiorgos as a middle name because that's what they will call him. And you know that Greeks don't have middle names but if they do it is the name of their father

Much as I empathise with your sentiment celeste, the OP can't up sticks and move to the UK with the children without her husbands permission. Her husband could take her to court for child abduction under the Hague convention and as the children's place of habitual residence is Greece they would be sent back there by the English courts. Similarly, furious as I am on the OPs behalf, I don't think making threats of divorce is wise unless she genuinely means to see it through, knowing that she may not be able to return to the UK with the chikdren. I do think the situation is more than the inlaws being self absorbed though. The husbands comment about losing respect is imo the worst thing in all this.

Get their passports and come back to England for a while. Take a long holiday. Register the births and use the names which were agreed between you and your h.

He is behaving like a complete Twunt.

I'm not saying she should do it, I'm saying she should make them realise this is non negotiable and threats are one way of doing it, especially when dealing with unreasonable bullies. Meet fire with fire!

We named DD after the maternal grandmother of DH's. Luckily it was a name I loved. I gave her my maternal grandmothers name as a middle name. both grandmothers had passed though. Our son does not have a grandparents name. George is a good name, would you consider calling him that?