When cultures Clash..I refuse to give my father-in-laws name to my son.

[orangebee1]

Ladies, last week i delivered twins, one boy and one girl. My husband is Greek and tradition here dictates that the grandson must be named after the grandfather.
I am English and it's unthinkable to me that i can't choose my son's name. I am happy to have the grandfather's name (Yiorgos) as a middle name, but certainly not the first one and am insisting that my huband and i find a name we BOTH want.

I delivered by c-section and after two days (when i was still in the hospital recovering!) what should have been a joyous occasion turned into tears and arguments over the name choices - i wrote the names my husband and i had agreed on on facebook and his family saw and all hell broke lose.

My husband was so taken upset by his family's reaction, he was crying and distressed and finally changed his mind about the names.

As yet the babies are unamed and referred to as "the boy" and "the girl".
His sister says to me "you have three children now, what is it to name one of them after the grandfather - he has only one life and waited all of it until this day for his name to be passed on".

Am i being unreasonable??? Would you name your child a name you really do not like at all to keep the peace???

the family are living in Greece and the child will presumably grow up there so surrounded by Greek culture and a Greek family. What is best for the child and when do his rights get a mention? This isn't something to break up a family over. If the family were living in England I'd expect the child to have an English name and be following English traditions, with a Greek second name, if intending to stay in Greece I'd give them a Greek first name and an English second.

The elder daughter was possibly not the first born granddaughter and the naming tradition is, I suspect, less pronounced after the firstborn.

I come back to what else is wrong and why does it matter so much? Why the dislike of the name of someone who's been kind to you? Perhaps the OP feels smothered by the Greek family or undervalued by them?

Is the op's daughter actually the first granddaughter? I imagine either she was indeed named after her paternal grandmother (and the OP liked the name so was ok with that) or she isn't the first grandchild.

Clearly the OP deserves to be cut a huge amount of slack but look at some of the language she uses. She's not coming across well and I'm surprised so many posters are egging her on.

Lord and putting the names on Facebook, in full knowledge of just how significant this naming convention is, appears deliberately inflammatory.

Do people ever do this, unless they're after a reaction?

I find all the comments advising you to go along with just because it's tradition ridiculous. When your PIL's named their babies, they chose to follow tradition. That is where their say in the matter ends- these are your babies, it is now your turn, and so it is entirely the choice of you and your DH whether or not you continue this tradition. I think offering to use your FIL's name as a middle name is a lovely gesture and fair compromise.

I can see that your DH is in a very unpleasant situation with his family (which I agree, could maybe have been avoided if they had been aware of this choice before the birth), but that absolutely does not excuse him joining in their bullying of you. He should be apologising to you and explaining firmly to his family that you have agreed on names and that decision is final.

My DP's family are quite traditional, and I know that his grandfather isn't too impressed that our DC is to have my surname instead of his, but my DP had shielded me from this (I have no idea what's actually been said), and has never tried to back down from a decision we mutually agreed on. I think that after what you've been through, that should be the least that you can expect.

Jeez, isn't OP just allowed to not like the name & therefore not want to use it?

She was willing to have it as a middle name.

Why should thee child have a Greek first name just because he lives there?

(Although that may be what OP was intending)

Are the Greeks really so small minded that an English mother giving her son an English name & a Greek middle name would be completely incomprehensible/unacceptable?

Maybe the OP and DH put the name on FB because DH was worried about telling his family.

Is it usual in 2013 to announce babies names on FB before informing GPs in a more personal way?

My FIL's name was Brian. There is no way on God's earth I would have agreed to name ds that!

If everyone continues to follow a naming tradition for fear of upsetting the older relatives, then that tradition will continue and new generations will face the same dilemma. I also don't think that this tradition in Greece is anywhere near as strong as people are suggesting.

OP's h had an agreement with her and is now going back on it under family pressure. I think OP and her h should name their dc as they choose and the gps will get over it. I posted on this thread about a friend whose FIL wanted the second dd named a female version of his name. Despite this not happening, the whole family is close and the name is not an issue. Who knows, perhaps the FIL harbours resentment over it, but that's his problem. In the UK you may get older relatives who think a married woman should do all the cooking and cleaning and shouldn't do paid work, but I wouldn't expect any woman to go along with that just to avoid offending the older generation.

I think the Greek family is being completely unreasonable, OP. You have already agreed to pass on the grandfather's name as your DS's middle name. So you have indeed respected their culture.

They, in turn, need to respect yours by accepting your choice of first name.

In your shoes, I would simply say to them: "This baby is a child of 2 cultures, and as such, has two names to reflect this. One chosen by his parents, as is done in UK culture, and another to honour his beloved grandfather, as is done in Greek culture. You can choose to call him by one, the other, or both, but please stop arguing about it. We have made our decision and are not prepared to discuss it further."

The simply refuse to talk about it--if you discuss it with them, it will make them think they are entitled to have some input into your naming choices, and things will get worse.

Are the Greeks really so small minded that an English mother giving her son an English name & a Greek middle name would be completely incomprehensible/unacceptable?

When you enter into a mixed culture marriage, you can't just dismiss other people's traditions as 'small-minded' if you want the marriage to succeed. I actually agree with the OP that if she feels very strongly about not naming the child, she shouldn't, but equally I think dismissing the fall-out in terms of culture is quite narrow minded- in many cultures, such as my husband's, naming traditions are very important and while you can kick against that or refuse to participate, you have to do so with sensitivity and respect, not just a like it or lump it and post it on Facebook attitude. My children have patronyms based on their father's names but their first names are both our choices, made to try and work in both cultures.

I don't think you can have a 'who cares about their ridiculous culture' attitude' when your children are going to be half that culture. Yours is not superior, just different and it's a matter of tone and respect to get that across while getting your own way when it is important to you not to follow their traditions.

Exactly-neither culture is superior.

So, a name from each culture?

But then would the argument be that the Greek name must be the one he is known by?

i did some family tree stuff through the census. it was really helpful that my relatives, going back 200 years, have a 'john edmund', in every generation.
name your son after his grandad. you can call him anything you like.

In one culture, having the family name be the name that the child is known by is important- it's fine to ignore that and make a break with tradition, but you can't pretend that by giving it as a second name it has the same significance to the family, because it doesn't.

I hate a lot of the husband-bashing that can go on on these boards but I really do think that your husband is completely and utterly out of order in this instance. How dare he tell you that he will lose respect for you over this when it is him that has done the U-turn and caved to his family's opinion. I don't know how you are going to forgive him and move past this if he can't back down and apologise to you.

also this kind of thing could sour relations for years to come.
why not just call him Yiorgos and be done with it after all OP you have to live there for the next X amount of years and so does your son.

A name from each seems like the sensible solution diddl. And I think one could be quite laid back about what the different members of the family call the baby. Say, for example, his name is James Yiorgis, he could be nicknamed anything from Jamesie, Jim, Jimmy, James-Yiorgis, to Yiorgis, Yiorgi or whatever other diminutive suits.

For example, my DSIL goes by her middle name, while my DMIL and DFIL insist on calling her by her first name. It might sound a bit mad, but it works and keeps everyone happy.

Maybe the OP put the names on FB because as far as she was concerned she had told her husband pre-marriage that she would not name any firstborn son of theirs after his father- he had agreed and they had subsequently picked out names together?
If she lives in Greece of course she was going to put the names on FB to announce the birth to all her friends and relatives back in the UK.

Reading back the OP she says her husband was taken aback by his parents' reaction. It sounds as if he wasn't expecting that tradition to be such a big deal and they are his parents!

And the OP does say she doesn't like the name at all. It is perfectly possible to love/like a person and hate their name. There is no way I would want to give a child of mine a name I don't like. Tradition or not.

Re the name on FB: Is that how people communicate with the parents these days.
Would you not ring your parents first before putting it on FB?

I think I would be a bit sad if my DCs announced their babies' names on FB without telling me first.

If you marry someone from another culture it seems only fair to meet in the middle- it is so simple here to take a name from each. In my family history we have names that go down the generations from 200 years ago and it is lovely. There is one that I should have but wasn't given it- it could, so easily, have been a second and third name for me.
It is so common to have a first name that you don't use that it isn't even remarked on.
No one knows what your DS will think in years to come- if he was mine I would like him to have a name from both and not have had a war zone over the decision!

FB is a very rude way to announce names!

Congratulations! You're a feminist.

OP, I really think your husband was vvu when he agreed to not name a son after his granddad.
He should have forseen this chaos. He was probably like my dh, he knew about the tradition but thought it wasn't a big deal.
We were just far enough away from Greece for it to become such an issue, mainly because pil stopped talking to us and we had to name the baby within a week.

I hope you are recovering well from the birth and let this mess settle a bit.
You need time to find put what you can happily live with. Don't let anyone pressure you into a decision.

I actually disagree with the comments about boundaries etc. There is no indication that the Pil will want to interfere constantly, this is purely about tradition.

THE PROPOSED COMPROMISE

Since i last posted my husband and i have discussed a compromise and i was hoping for some feedback on it.

1. We will agree on a first name, provided the second name is Yiorgos.
2. His family can all call him by Yiorgos and that includes when they are at our house.
3. All three of our children will be christened, and at the Christening Yiorgos will be placed as the FIRST name (BUT this is just a religious name and the system here is separate for the official name which will be something different.).

The way i feel right now i don't ever want to see the name Yiorgos again, but i realise i will need to compromise to keep things together here.

I am so anti-christening the children, i never wanted to do this and neither did my husband - until now. I don't mind if they are older when they can chose religion for themselves, but i hate the thought of doing this now. That said i agreed to just the boy being christened, but it's not enough - my husband wants all of them done.

Also about his family calling him by "yiorgos" - fine again, this (my husband says) includes when we go to their village - the entire village will call him yiorgos, or to families houses - everyone in those places will know him by yiorgos. Fine again - BUT not in MY HOUSE. In my own home i'd like my wishes to be respected - is that reasonable??

I am all for compromise but I wouldn't call it a compromise!
I would say yes to the christening and the formal name but insist that he has his everyday name.

Delurking here.

What about your husband"losing respect for you". Whatever compromise position you reach ( and this will inevitably be picked over with a fine-toothed comb on here), a sincere apology from him should be part of the package.