To wonder what is wrong with talking to your child?

[SpanielFace]

Genuine question... Please don't flame me!

I've seen several threads on here criticising parents who talk loudly to their children in public, sing to them, encourage them to answer questions, and so on. "What colour is that flower? What noise does the cat make?" etc. Apparently this is called loud parenting, or performance parenting, or just plain pushiness.

DS is only 10 months, but I chat to him loads. Not loudly, not constantly (he has plenty of time playing by himself while I potter around doing things) - but I do tend to tell him what I'm doing, I point things out to him in the buggy, we read books, we sing action songs.

My understanding (from HV, Surestart centres etc) was that talking to and encouraging your baby was a Good Thing. In fact, I received a bookstart pack today with a free story book, and a leaflet of suggested activities ("Talk about what colours you can see in the book. Can you see any of these colours in your home? Can you make a noise like an owl?")

So who is right? Where is the line between interactive parenting and stimulating your baby, and pushy parenting? And am I one of these annoying "loud parent" types I keep reading about?

You can generally tell the difference by the amount of input from the child

Or, if the child is pre-verbal, by the level of vocabulary & syntax used by the parent. "Look, Baby, there's a cat! See the cat?" is possibly helpful to a child on the verge of constructing its own sentences. "Oh, I say, Baby, I do believe that cat is a Selkirk Rex. They have such adorable faces, I always think, rather like a child's teddy bear, and they have the sweetest nature. Fearfully expensive, I suppose, but it's be awfully nice if Daddy would agree to stump up. Maybe for your birthday ..." not so much.

The problem is, McGee, that so many of the examples given are clearly made-up and OTT so it becomes difficult to ascertain exactly what people are complaining about. All this stuff about Tarquin and Jocasta... (though some posters make up some reet funny stuff )

Then you have the poster (sorry can't scroll up) above who is so dead against people talking to children on trains and, yes, it does come across that that is what she objects to - helpfully giving out advice about doing sticker books in silence at home to practise for the train . No awareness that said families may be tired and stressed, maybe on their way back form a holiday, for example, if they are on what is normally just a commuter train.

I think a lot of it does come down to where you live and this skews your perspective. Until recently, I lived somewhere where it was common to see children ignored or shouted at, so the stuff on these types of threads seems the better option to me.

When I do hear someone sounding showy-offy, depending on their overall tone, I feel amused or sorry for them. I remember when ds1 was a baby I felt nearly hysterical with tiredness a lot of the time and was desperately holding it together. No doubt my voice was a bit shrill sometimes in those days as I tried hard to be a 'good mother'.

And you do hear people saying on these threads how ridiculous it is to talk to babies/toddlers about things they don't understand and, while I take the poster above's comment about using long sentences tey are going to lose track of, I don't think you should wait until you know they understand something before you say it, as then they would never learn anything new.

Anyway, although I don't think there are any on this thread, you do get a lot of snidy comments from 'benign neglect types on these threads.

The point about coming from somewhere where all that happens is that kids get shouted at is definitely worth bearing in mind. I spent my teenage years in a part of the north-east that other people from the north-east have told me is "as rough as a badger's arse". I think we can all agree that anything is better than the next-door-neighbour I had who once told her five year old "Divn't fuckin' swear at me, ye little fuckin' piece o' shite".

I talk absolute rubbish to my five-month-old all the time. It's not particularly directed, though. Just a stream of consciousness. Erm, semi-consciousness.

I really can't understand why people can't understand the difference between talking to your child and loud or performance parenting.
Of course you should talk to your baby/child- how on earth are they supposed to learn the language if you don't?!

Talking to your child is for their benefit, you are engaging with your child. It is like a normal conversation, and even with a baby, you wait for a reaction and you respond to it- it is a two way thing and you need to pause.

Loud or performance parenting is not for the benefit of the child- it is a long monologue for the benefit of the adults nearby saying 'look at me- I am a good parent- see how advanced my child is' and they are out to impress their audience , which is certainly not the child!

Babies and children are no different from adults in that respect, if you don't like being addressed like a public meeting, with no pauses, no time for reflection, no chance to get a word in edgeways and nothing personal in it- then why should they?

The performance parent never gets anything back- the child is used to the constant barrage of words and it washes over them and they haven't grasped that a response is needed.

Performance parenting is loud. I have been around the supermarket counting carrots into bags, but no one except my child would have heard,
and the baby really doesn't need a lesson on air miles and organic!

Lastly performance parenting is very funny! Stand up comics could use the material- they couldn't get anything from the normal, caring parent who is just doing the very normal, everyday conversation with their child.

Of course it is better than not talking to your child or swearing at them and there is the advantage that it does stop once the child talks and doesn't let them get away with it- they give the 'wrong' answers and let her down!

The more PP threads I read, the more I begin to think I might do it....

...oh no..!

There's nothing wrong with talking to your child, as long as you aren't doing at a volume that disturbs other people, say, loudy on the train, or in a place where you shouldn't be talking (the library / the cinema).

Replace the word "child" with "spouse / friend / grandma" or whatever, and the answer is the same.

Exoticfruits has just said what I've been thinking reading this. Listening to a parent droning on loudly about colours or spelling or organic food or whatever means the conversation is not for the child's benefit. What children really needing someone talking at them loudly and "teaching" them things but exploring with them, providing space for them to talk (or not talk!) and following their lead on subjects that interest them. This does of course tend to lead to mind numbing conversations about Minecraft and One Direction so there are disadvantages!

The worst case I've seen of PP was by a very loud lady who ended up with one child who followed her mother's example and talks absolutely non stop loudly, and one child who has had a couple of years speech therapy to make up for never really getting chance to speak in such a loud household!

It's probably worth pointing out that, whilst its good to talk to your child, there are some advantages to teaching them to be quiet or that not every thought needs to be vocalised.

We often get buses over to see my parents and to amuse dd as a baby i used to talk to her about what we could see out the windows (its about an hour and a half journey, mostly through the country side so lots of farms etc) which I did nice and quietly so as not to disturb other passengers. This worked well, passed the time nicely and no one had to listen to screaming baby.

Dd is now 4, she doesn't stop the whole bus journey, she also has no volume control, this would bother me far less if she was just saying things like 'ooh look there's a cow, cows eat grass' but oh no, my precious little princess prefers to point out things that are on the bus.

The best ones have been:
'ooh look, that lady has a big squidgy bum, she takes up two seats'

'that man has a really shiney head, why doesn't he have any hair?'

and my personal favourite 'Mummy, those men are very wobbly, have they been drinking wine? Wine makes you wobbly. I don't think I like wine, it tastes funny' (I had given her some non-alcoholic stuff in a plastic wine glass at a party so she could feel grown up)

They only do it with babies and toddlers- once the child is older you have the fun situation where the child chips in with family life as it really is - rather than the way mother wants to portray it. Astute DCs do it on purpose!
You need pauses- if you say 'look - there is a horse in that field' - you need to give them time to look at the horse and not go nonstop onto the next thing.

I should think that is fairly typical Jaynebxl, they have no example of normal conversation.

If you were to sit on a train next to someone who talked at you non stop you would be pretty fed up- I can't see why a baby or young child is different.

Perhaps that is the answer OP- you should be talking to your baby and not at your baby.

Loving the examples :o

It is a shame that LeQueen isn't around- she does wonderful playlets of PP and they would leave OP in no confusion over the difference!

Actually though I tell the four year old types of leaf and not just 'look at the tree' . Why wouldn't I want them to know the difference between oak, ash, beech etc? And I've always assumed they can learn stuff so pitched high.

I think the issue is the unnecessary volume (unless your child has hearing difficulties).

If you are talking to another adult stood next to you it will be at a volume where generally other people won't be aware of what you're saying. Therefore why does the volume when speaking to a child (particularly a small one) have to be twice as loud ????

It does always smack of of a parent wanting to show to other people what a 'good' parent they are and isn't really done for the benefit of the child.

I have always chatted constantly to mine since they were babies but not at a level I wouldn't have used for an adult.

I'm off to Sainsburys soon. I shall have a good look for some PP though I doubt there'll be any up this way really.

BrianButterfield Tue 16-Jul-13 21:04:18

Wilson and I had a bit of a MN mind-meld there!

Haven't read the rest of the thread, but I so want Brian and Wilson to team up and form a mind-melding Brian Wilson tribute band. It could be called Brian Wilson ButterfieldFrickett

I agree there are some parents obviously trying to show off there amazing little darlings genius to the world however I think its worth remembering some people talk louder than others, some are hard of hearing themselves or have children who have hearing difficulties. My Mum talks quite loudly, partly to do with her hearing, but its something that bothers her constantly and she's very self conscious about it - especially after some woman on a bus trip decided to make a big deal about how my Mum's voice was giving her a headache this was years ago and she still feels crap about it.

We are going to home educate so even though eldest isn't school age I do use his questions when were out to discuss things in a little more detail. Maybe I'm a loud/performance parent? I don't think so cause I answer his questions quietly and I know my intention isn't to show off - he's at that age where he asks some gems like 'why is the sky blue?' and so on. I guess it helps that I don't use trains or buses so not regularly in a confined space with people.

I'm terrible for talking to myself too so at least now I don't look quite so mental when I'm out as it seems like I'm talking to the kids!

hmmm

perhaps did performance parenting too loudly in Sainsburys today
DS always picks granny smith apples and then waits in expectation for
'There was a young lady from Ryde' in my best mock mummerset accent

But the man behind us seemed to find it really amusing I would have toned the accent and volume down if I had known he was there, mostly to stop me looking like a total loon

Brian Wilson ButterfieldFrickett

Arf

Thank goodness for anyone who even talks to and teaches and shows a little child the world. Who cares if it is performance?

So upsetting seeing the little faces looking up in vain while mums? carers?are on phones ALL THE TIME.

Don't even talk about the "i'll pull your f....ng head offers"

Yes, yes, please can we have Brian Wilson ButterfieldFrickett..?

By the way - just as a warning, if you talk to your children all the time, they grow up, leave home - and then when they visit they accuse you of 'Muttering to yourself all the time Mum - you know that's the first sign don't you?' It's very hard to stop...........

The key is to not say anything to your child that could be overheard by anyone who might not share your perspective and who might be prone to bitterness.
This is usually only a problem if the over hearer has a tendency to attribute fabricated attributes to the overheard. Such as deciding that the reason you are speaking to your child is not to be nice but to piss them off by "performing"
You must also not be seen to completely disengage from your child or offer them a biscuit or a fruit shoot to get round the supermarket without either of you having a tantrum.
Tread the thinline between those and you'll be fine.

People are determined not to get it!

Of course you can point out the difference between an oak leaf and a beech leaf, you can answer all the 'why' questions. ( DCs of performance parents never speak anyway so don't ask questions), you can do funny rhymes, you can talk loudly if any of the party have hearing difficulties.

I really can't put it more plainly.

However, long may people do it- it brightens the day with a good laugh but I always give the poor child a sympathetic grin- they must long for an 'off' switch! Or maybe they are simply immune and switched off themselves long ago.

One last attempt at an explanation- if your DC is responding, in any way at all, then you are not a performance parent.

People are determined not to get it!

Of course you can point out the difference between an oak leaf and a beech leaf, you can answer all the 'why' questions. ( DCs of performance parents never speak anyway so don't ask questions), you can do funny rhymes, you can talk loudly if any of the party have hearing difficulties.

I really can't put it more plainly.

However, long may people do it- it brightens the day with a good laugh but I always give the poor child a sympathetic grin- they must long for an 'off' switch! Or maybe they are simply immune and switched off themselves long ago.

One last attempt at an explanation- if your DC is responding, in any way at all, then you are not a performance parent.

People are determined not to get it!

Of course you can point out the difference between an oak leaf and a beech leaf, you can answer all the 'why' questions. ( DCs of performance parents never speak anyway so don't ask questions), you can do funny rhymes, you can talk loudly if any of the party have hearing difficulties.

I really can't put it more plainly.

However, long may people do it- it brightens the day with a good laugh but I always give the poor child a sympathetic grin- they must long for an 'off' switch! Or maybe they are simply immune and switched off themselves long ago.

One last attempt at an explanation- if your DC is responding, in any way at all, then you are not a performance parent.