To wonder what is wrong with talking to your child?

[SpanielFace]

Genuine question... Please don't flame me!

I've seen several threads on here criticising parents who talk loudly to their children in public, sing to them, encourage them to answer questions, and so on. "What colour is that flower? What noise does the cat make?" etc. Apparently this is called loud parenting, or performance parenting, or just plain pushiness.

DS is only 10 months, but I chat to him loads. Not loudly, not constantly (he has plenty of time playing by himself while I potter around doing things) - but I do tend to tell him what I'm doing, I point things out to him in the buggy, we read books, we sing action songs.

My understanding (from HV, Surestart centres etc) was that talking to and encouraging your baby was a Good Thing. In fact, I received a bookstart pack today with a free story book, and a leaflet of suggested activities ("Talk about what colours you can see in the book. Can you see any of these colours in your home? Can you make a noise like an owl?")

So who is right? Where is the line between interactive parenting and stimulating your baby, and pushy parenting? And am I one of these annoying "loud parent" types I keep reading about?

[xylem8]

I talked all the time to my children from birth onwards.When they are tiny a lot of what you say is a question, I don't know why.
'Right what shall we have for tea? do you think shepherds would be nice? Do you think daddy would like that? And "big brother"? I wonder what he is doing at school right now, do you think he is painting?"
It really doesn't matter what you say.
I never come across these PP types people are talking about, maybe they just have a loud voice naturally? Maybe they are looking round because they are conscious they are talking loudly and want to see if they are disturbing anyone.

[exoticfruits]

I feel like banging my head against the wall!
PP and talking to your child are not the same!

[K8Middleton]

Lolol. I started one of these threads recently about PP. I was patronised to death by people talking about "what if the child has SEN?!!!" "People should talk to their children. You are horrid and awful and a meanie" "What if that's the only interaction the child has with his dad??!!!" "It's better than effing and blinding at the kid".

What people didn't know (because they were too busy telling instead of asking) was that the child concerned was my own and the PP was my dh, who was being uncharacteristically irritating - he is an awesome dad but just had a lapse of thinking and was trying a bit too hard - probably trying to impress me and half a train They also would know, had they asked, that I know about speech delay and some of the techniques used, eg "good listening" and "now you say ss -tick" because ds had a hearing and speech and language problem and still is a bit delayed in some respects.

As a general rule, loud parenting or performance parenting is for the benefit of an adult audience, not the child. You know it when you see it!

My favourite was in Waitrose when a woman on her knees explaining to her child, who was 2yo at most, that "We buy organic milk. Not everybody buys organic milk because they are uneducated. That's un-ed-u-cated and do not understand the difference. We buy organic because mummy gets what's best for you ". There was much looking around by the woman and her dd was trying to lick the floor!

[WafflyVersatile]

I remember that.

[exoticfruits]

I loved your thread K8M- especially as people tried to hijack it with SN and then it was your DH!

The milk one is a perfect example!

You have to ask yourself could Victoria Wood or similar use it as material?
Xylem8's example would be useless- it isn't PP, the 'uneducated people who don't buy organic milk' is a real gift- PP at it's hilarious best!

[MmeLindor]

[awards MN prize of the day to BrianWilson]

That was an utterly awesome XP.

No one is being mean about bilingual families. There is a world of difference between me speaking German to the kids cause we are a German/British family and someone explaining the history of German baking industry to a bored 3yo just because he wanted a Brezel in Lidl, while teaching him to say, 'Broetchen' and 'Rosinenschnecke'.

[thegreylady]

I found myself doing the opposite in the school playground [too much mn].The school has asmall track with coloured lines and words at intervals...WALK.....HOP....SKIP....JUMP....TIP-TOE and the children follow the lines in the suggested manner.
My dgs [aged4] is just blending sounds to make words and the other day he was spelling out the words loudly before he did the actions.S-K-I-P then skipping.I worried some of the mums were looking as if they thought he was showing off so I called him over and said,"Whisper love you might wake the baby." Fortunately someone had a sleeping baby.

[ouryve]

Sainsburys is fertile ground for PP. I remember we were pretty much following a mother with her daughter, once, who was steadily ticking all the PP boxes, lots of talk about we don't buy this because it's bad for you etc etc but almost choked at the "we absolutely must do some baking, darling" resulting in a trip to the packet cake mix shelves.

[K8Middleton]

Poor dh. Although he did count to 40 beautifully. Unfortunately ds can only reliably count to 15...

[xylem8]

somebody does a sketch a bit like that.Can't remember who? possibly Catherine Tate.
' Be brave my darlings, I have terrible news, I couldn't buy pate'

[WilsonFrickett]

Yes! Catherine Tate does a brilliant version.

[JollyShortGiant]

I'm sure people observing me think I'm performance parenting. I have a loud voice and I talk to DS a lot. Plus, 2yo DS will ask me what something is from a distance then clam up when we get close. So I'm stuck asking some chap what kind of agricultural machinery is attached to the back of that tractor so I can explain it to DS and it looks like I have a non verbal child. (This has happened more often than you might imagine. We spend a lot of time around heavy machinery.)

We talk about all sorts of nonsense too. And sometimes I sing in the supermarket.

BUT, the thing is that I behave the same whether I am in public or not. And all our conversation is for the benefit of DS and me, not anyone else. I just think it might not look like that to an outsider.

[exoticfruits]

There is only one question, JollyShortGiant- Could Catherine Tate use it? If not then you are not a PP.

[YouTheCat]

But Jolly, you are interacting with your child and they are interacting back - it's a two way thing. PP there is no real interaction.

That's the difference.

I have returned from Sainsburys. No PP to report. Just full of really annoying (presumably single) men who don't know where anything is and block the aisles.

[JollyShortGiant]

The singing would possibly inspire a few laughs but other than that I'm probably safe enough.

[cocolepew]

There are always people who come on these threads and seem to refuse to see the difference between talking to your child and PP

Loving the examples and "use your indoor voice"

[MadeOfStarDust]

I only ever saw PP in action once - in Waitrose - "Come along darling - shall we get those olives again - did you like the ones with the garlic or the pepper slivers, must get some of that cooked meat you like too - what was it called again - pastrami - that's right, did you like it WITH the peppercorns " to a toddler.... who was sucking on a breadstick.

My one attempt failed... on a train "Oh look a moo-cow" - "For God's sake mum I'm twelve"

[EmmelineGoulden]

I think lots of people refuse to see the difference, because the line isn;t there.

I certainly wondered loudly about organic carrots in the supermarket when my DCs were babies, jabbered on wihtout giving them a chance to respond; got them counting in spanish as toddlers; and occasionally find myself trying to explain philosophy or politics to them in the park. I'm pretty loud (by nature and necessity).

When they were babies I was articulating questions I had as a way to get me talking to them otherwise I might not have said a word to them all day. Also attempting to get my brain working through a haze of sleep deprivation and baby brain. As they became toddlers I was trying to engage them in things they found interesting (the Spanish from Dora the Explora); frequently failing, but sometimes really connecting. And now they are school age I get asked all sorts of hard questions that don't really have an answer and while they are surprisingly interested in complex responses I still pitch it wrong quite a lot sometimes. I don't find interacting with young children comes naturally to me so I try out lots of things, my DCs only like some of them so I often end up looking like I'm trying to force an interest on them. I'm not. I'm experimenting.

I could certainly see Catherine Tate using a few of my more extreme examples, I've laughed at myself a few times. But it hasn't ever been for the benefit of others around me. I'm just trying to get on and make these years as interesting for them and me as I can.

So I find all this judgyness about "performance parenting" to be just another way to kick mothers. It's one way of interacting with children, it isn't the only way or the "best" way, it's just people trying to get on with their lives within the social pressures and "expert" advice around parenting that they live with. It hurts no-one else. But the constant criticism of mothers is really nasty and hurts all of us.

[YouTheCat]

My dd and I used to wander around the shops quoting Monty Python. She was 6/7 and I found it most amusing. Most other people probably thought we were lunatics.

[exoticfruits]

I really don't mind- it brightens day! Long may they continue to do so.

[LadyBryan]

"Don't do your interactive stimulation on a train" - I'd far prefer that if the alternative is little Jimmy wailing for the entire journey!

[schmee]

According to mumsnet:

Normal parenting = when someone talks to their child
Performance parenting = when someone talks to their child about something middleclass

Actually I think:
Normal parenting = what you do with your child at home
Loud parenting = what you do with your child in situations where they are likely to throw tantrums to try to preempt said tantrum

[IAmNotAMindReader]

Of course there is a difference many, many posters have identified it. Some of the professionally offended however refuse to see it though.

No one cares if you talk to your child about particle physics if that's what makes their eyes light up and animates them. You hear me NO ONE.

By no one cares in THIS instance it is because you've found something you can connect and interact with your child over and its obvious they are interacting in return and enjoy it.

If you talk loudly for whatever reason no one should care because the child is interacting back, even if they are only listening it is usually clear when a child is interested in what you say.

There, get it?

Performance parenting is talking about a subject the parent has deemed ticks all the correct boxes for ethics, political leanings, environmentally friendliness and social standing. Then they proceed to make loud proclamations about chosen topics whilst checking constantly that other adults are in the vicinity and are listening rather than checking it is a subject their child is engaged with.

They are trying to engage the surrounding people as their target audience rather than their child. Even a very young child learns enough social cues to gather this type of parenting is not aimed at them and quickly disengage through boredom. There is no chance for them to interact with the parent because the parent is not paying any attention to their child's cues they are too busy looking out for their target audiences cues.

The children of performance parents realise this behaviour is not for their benefit and resort to licking floors and such like for entertainment so why can some posters not?

Yes I am coming across as patronising, because some are deliberately sabre rattling the subject and refuse to see the difference, all for the sake of a soap box moment.

[Tattle]

I hope I've not been labeled a pp
,ever since dd could blow raspberries I chatted to her when out and about.
Most of the time I think aloud have conversations with myself and probably look nuts to others so dd is a good cover and I direct my thoughts at her instead when she is with me.
Nows she is 3 so she does most/all of the talking.

[IAmNotAMindReader]

Once again performance parenting is not talking to your child about something middles class, fine if that's what engages them.

Performance parenting isn't talking out loud in a mindless stream of consciousness hell I do that walking down the street on my own frequently.

Performance parenting isn't trying to distract a child before a tantrum starts.

All of these engage the child on some level.

Performance parenting is attempting to engage a random set of adults in public using your child as a prop to gain their approval with comments about your general lifestyle.

This does not engage the child.