To feel glad/relieved Ireland is voting through Abortion Bill

[ARealDame]

Its only a bare minimum - in the case of a woman's life being threatened - but it is also a massive sea change, on this sensitive issue. The vote in the Lower House was 127:31.

(Mary Kenny wrote very interestingly in the Times about it - saying that although the Church has played a role, much of the opposition was to do with Ireland's fear of "depopulation". Partly because of Ireland's history - famine, mass emigration. But also due to a rural pro-natalist mindset. In agricultural communities another child is "another pair of hands". In cities, another child is "another mouth to feed".)

Most procedures are paid for privately but some are done on the NHS, so yes, they are paying for them. They are also providing services like the incredible service offered at Liverpool Women's to women terminating for medical reasons.

Abortion IS LEGAL in Northern Ireland. Have a read of this. Abortions are taking place in Northern Ireland right now.

And of course, you and all your friends and family DO have abortions available to you just as freely as they are in England. Because you can travel, whenever you want. So once again any talk of a special culture or attitude to unwanted pregnancy is just talk. You HAVE abortion. Most people can get an abortion when they want one. There is nothing special about Ireland, North or south, other than we like to punish children, abuse victims, and the very poor.

You're way behind the times norniron, there have been totally legal abortions, up to 9 weeks, in the marie stopes BELFAST clinic for a year.
And your province costs the english taxpayer for this, and many other things. But thats beside the point.

Is it really so contraversial an opinion to think that the only person who should control whether human beings can come out of her body is the person whose body it is? It seems so patently obvious to me that I struggle to understand how anyone can think otherwise. I know they do, but I don't get it.

I think women can self regulate and don't need laws to draw a line in the sand

So surely we don't need laws regarding murder, theft etc either? As obviously we're all so reasonable.

Laws aren't there to restrict the ones who think logically and have good moral compasses, they're on place as there will always be individuals who dp not have the same morals as the rest of society. Each society draws up its laws based on the ethics upheld by the majority.

Most of us couldn't conceive of terminating at 39 weeks because we've changed our mind and decided we don't want the healthy baby growing within us. So theres an assumption that only non viable babies will be terminated at this stage. But that is simply not the case.

But why are you so determined to discuss abortions to term, bumbley, when they effect almost nobody, and there are thousands of Irish women with serious medical need because their babies are dying inside them who could do with your support and attention instead?

(the info you have given is for those after 9 weeks)

HoldMe, yes, but still under the current legislation.

"Abortions can be carried out only to preserve the life of the mother or if continuing the pregnancy would have other serious, permanent physical or mental health effects.

There is strict assessment regarding any impact on mental well-being and the woman must consult with two clinicians."

"So surely we don't need laws regarding murder, theft etc either? As obviously we're all so reasonable."

I'm afraid that doesn't follow, at all. We're talking only about bodily integrity, not the rights of other citizens.

Serious folks.

Every year, there are 90 women (at least) pregnant by rape.

1800 women are told they have a fatal fetal abnormality.

ZERO women in the UK and Ireland have late term abortions for non-medical reasons.

So why the hell do you care so much about a hypothetical situation that never arises even in the few countries it is legal, let alone OUR countries, where it ISN'T and there is no suggestion it will be?

Where is your fucking compassion?

Really making diggs? One poster said she would never visit Ireland because if this. I have read many view here on Ireland and Northern Ireland, so I am allowed my own. Of course we are not fine and dandy here, but then again is England perfect right now? I think not. Now I won't be getting into any arguments here and won't be posting on this matter again because the simple fact is the vast majority of people here do not want abortion legalised apart from in some circumstances. It does not make us backward as many people on this thread have stated, it may not be the views on the women there, but it certainly does not make us less civilised than England, it just happens to be something the majority of people here don't want. Right or wrong, it its not your concern.

It IS our concern. Don't be ridiculous. Don't be such a nimby.

Don't worry, Nornironmum, you and all your friends and family can still have any abortion you need.

Thanks to "England".

HoldMe, because skyler and others were talking about supporting the rights of a mother to terminate a pregnancy to term - did you not read the thread before asking me why I was discussing it?

"ZERO women in the UK and Ireland have late term abortions for non-medical reasons."

Because they aren't legal.

If you think thats the only reason, you have a very low opinion of women, and obviously of yourself.

As Northern Ireland is a constituent part of the United Kingdom, the abortion rights of Northern Irish women is the concern of their fellow citizens, even if they are () English.

So a woman who is being abused by her partner should have the right to murder him as he's a threat to her bodily integrity?

A child beaten by their parent?

A death caused in self defence is never murder?

It does hold... a baby which could be removed alive and put up for adoption with no greater risk to the mother at that stage of pregnancy is instead injected into the heart with a lethal dose of medication to kill it. The mother then gives birth to this dead infant. Her body has been through an entire pregnancy and now the birth, her physical health is exactly as it would have been if the baby were alive. Instead of giving the living child away after the birth a decision has been made to end its perfectly viable life.

But as Holdme has pointed out, this is all tangential to the main debate, my apologies as it was me who mentioned the full term issue first. I simply wanted to point out that there is a spectrum of opinion on this issue which is further complicating the matter.

Skyler never mentioned it until you did! SummerRain was the first person to bring up late term abortions.

They are irrelevant. Nobody is proposing them.

Totally agree with those saying that the rest of the UK have been desensitised to abortion.

Summer, I'm not going to engage with such silly, derailing, arguments. none of those are remotely analagous, they are merely inflaming.

Why the rest of the UK? The vast majority of women in Northern Ireland and Ireland have as much access to abortion as an English woman does.

Irish women have abortions all the time. About three every day. One in ten Irish pregnancies ends in abortion. How have English people been 'densensitised' but not Irish people?

Fab tonydanza, the marvelous England to the rescue again! What would the rest of the world do without you sorting out all of its problems?
I am not getting into a debate here, and I am not saying abortion is right or wrong. I am simply saying why not try sorting out the many issues in England right now and stop passing judgement on other counties views and laws.

As a matter of interest, bumbley, less than 1% of abortions in Canada take place after 20 weeks, according to the Canadian statistics agency.

Kobay, I think youve missed the point. How do you expect them to have one here if its not legal?

I repeat, NornIronMum: As Northern Ireland is a constituent part of the United Kingdom, the abortion rights of Northern Irish women is the concern of their fellow citizens, even if they are () English.

Fab tonydanza, the marvelous England to the rescue again! What would the rest of the world do without you sorting out all of its problems?

I am not English, you loon, I'm Irish!

And I pass judgement over all of our nasty, woman-punishing laws I like.