To feel glad/relieved Ireland is voting through Abortion Bill

[ARealDame]

Its only a bare minimum - in the case of a woman's life being threatened - but it is also a massive sea change, on this sensitive issue. The vote in the Lower House was 127:31.

(Mary Kenny wrote very interestingly in the Times about it - saying that although the Church has played a role, much of the opposition was to do with Ireland's fear of "depopulation". Partly because of Ireland's history - famine, mass emigration. But also due to a rural pro-natalist mindset. In agricultural communities another child is "another pair of hands". In cities, another child is "another mouth to feed".)

Indeed I was Skyler but if I found out a fetus I was carrying had a condition that was incompatible with life I would consider it in their best interests as well tbh.

Yes I support abortion to term partly because I believe current abortion laws in the UK are disabilist, it is wrong to discriminate between the disabled and those who are not. I also fundamentally believe in a woman's right to bodily autonomy. We cannot give rights to a fetus over and above the woman carrying that fetus.

Do I find late term abortion unpalatable? Hell yes but I also believe its not something any woman would do lightly, the laws in Canada show this to be true, women don't need laws to regulate abortion, they will do that themselves unless of course you think women are callous, heartless people who abort for fun?

Fair enough skyler. I think we'd be getting into very dodgy territory if we start thinking about whether or not ending the life of the disabled person would be in the best interests of those around them...

Lucy sorry to hear of your experience :(

Lucy, I'm not sure where you're correcting me. I am we'll aware that the foetus is not considered viable until 24 weeks. (Although, as someone pointed out earlier, babies born earlier have survived) Sorry for your loss.

Thanks 5

I am ashamed to be Irish when it comes to our backwards woman hating laws

Lucy is correcting you because you said that in Ireland a foetus is considered a person.

I don't expect you to respect my opinion, you'd have to be quite mad to since it opposes your own.
Irish law does not recognise a foetus as a person. The fact that it then gives it a right to life does not match its own laws. The fact that it gives it more rights than me, a real, legal, person is just bizarre.

I support the right of all women to be in charge of their own bodies. I support yours to not have an abortion, I don't think I should have any say in what you do with your body. You seem to think you have the right to control mine. Do you see why I don't think the two opinions are in in any way balanced, and yours so unfair?

5mad, I think it's ridiculous that you think that still applies when the foetus is perfectly capable of surviving outside the woman. I'm not sure why you don't think a woman would be capable of having a late term abortion considering that some of them seem to have no problem with killing their new borns and disposing of them in waste bins etc.

Me too, Lucy . I'm sorry that the awful law in Ireland made a painful situation even more traumatic for you.

I used the word 'person' in response to one of K's posts. I have already said that its right to life is acknowledged.(regardless of whether you want to consider it a person or not)

It doesn't have more of a right to life than you. It has the same right to life unless it is putting your life at risk.

5mad, my post should have said wouldnt be capable of having a late term abortion....

Maryz, I personally really struggle with it too. I support it, but I don't like it. But for me its the only moral position that makes sense.

(that doesn't mean its the legal position I actually argue and campaign for, since it would never happen, its an ideal, but not a realistic one). It seems to work for Canada though, a place we could do worse than emulate, imo.

5mad didn't say that women weren't capable of having late term abortions, she said it was a decision that they didn't take lightly.

You think it makes sense that a baby born at 37 weeks is alive and considered a person but one that still happens to be inside at that gestation isn't?

Oh ok, so we should be accepting of the women who commit infanticide because they probably didn't take he decision lightly?

Same here kobay its not something I like the idea of and as such I dont think its a decision a woman would take lightly, the statistics from Canada seem to back that up.

And even if a minority did do it lightly, I would still rather the majority have the right to bodily autonomy should they need it.

You cannot give a fetus equal rights to life without impeding on the life of the woman carrying that fetus, that is basic biology.

Yes, I do. One is out in the world, autonomous and a person, one is not. I don't see the problem with that. They are clearly different. And I say that as someone who had a baby before that point.

Historically, women who committed infanticide were generally treated with compassion by the law. I think that was a good thing.

A foetus at 37 weeks gestation inside the womb is alive, but it's not a person. It's a foetus.

We've had this late abortion discussion up thread, bumbley - why are you insisting on going over it again?

Yes skylerwhite thank you I was correcting bumbleymummys ridiculous statement.

Also as far as I am aware a woman can only terminate a pregnancy after 24 weeks ( in the uk) if the baby has no chance of survival not because she has changed her mind