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AIBU?

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Original poster

To feel glad/relieved Ireland is voting through Abortion Bill

671 replies

ARealDame · 16/07/2013 10:17

Its only a bare minimum - in the case of a woman's life being threatened - but it is also a massive sea change, on this sensitive issue. The vote in the Lower House was 127:31.

(Mary Kenny wrote very interestingly in the Times about it - saying that although the Church has played a role, much of the opposition was to do with Ireland's fear of "depopulation". Partly because of Ireland's history - famine, mass emigration. But also due to a rural pro-natalist mindset. In agricultural communities another child is "another pair of hands". In cities, another child is "another mouth to feed".)

OP posts:
farewellfarewell · 17/07/2013 23:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KobayashiMaru · 17/07/2013 23:01

How can we respect the opinions of those who control our bodies and think themselves morally right to do so? And how can we respect yours, when you agree with them?
This misguided notion that all opinions should be respected is patent nonsense. Your opinion is detrimental to my life. Don't you get that?

5madthings · 17/07/2013 23:02

If they want to impose their forced birth agenda on other women then yes they are mysoginists, if they say I won't have abortion but respect other women's right to choose what is right for them, fine.

farewellfarewell · 17/07/2013 23:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

skylerwhite · 17/07/2013 23:03

What Koba said.

KobayashiMaru · 17/07/2013 23:05

still no answer. It's funny that, there never is. Wonder if they haven't got one?

farewellfarewell · 17/07/2013 23:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Nornironmum · 17/07/2013 23:08

Well the anti English pro slavery iterate, uncivilised little me, is finished here.
Not an argument anyone is going to win, I simply told the facts, the option of the majority here, and also my opinion.
You may think I am wrong, that's fine, I think you are wrong, but I do respect your views.
It's wrong to not at least have respect for the views of others, which I have shown all along and many of you have not. In my opinion it's respect that makes a person civilized.

Nornironmum · 17/07/2013 23:11

That should read illiterate ( it's the iPhone) not me being stupid! Though that is also a matter of opinion

skylerwhite · 17/07/2013 23:12

You are entitled to your views. I just don't think your or anyone else's opinions should affect what any other woman can do with her own body.

KobayashiMaru · 17/07/2013 23:16

So you can't answer me then? Shocker.

"It's wrong not to respect the opinions of others" Seriously? Have you thought that through at all. Do you respect the opinions of racists, of homophobes, of Robert Mugabe? Do you respect opinions that make you angry? Of course we don't have to respect everyone's opinion of something, that would be ridiculous.

I respect your right to have an opinion, of course. I do not respect your opinion. Why should I, when it is the opposite of my own? How could I, and have any moral conscience at all?

BabyMakesMyEyesGoSleepy · 17/07/2013 23:18

Norn you look after your uterus and i'll look after mine. Just keep your opinions and democracy out of it.

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 23:19

I'm not giving you the answer you want Koba, that doesn't mean I'm not answering you. The point is that in Ireland, the foetus is considered a person so having an abortion is doing something to them.

5madthings, you deciding to kill your husband doesn't harm me either.

5madthings · 17/07/2013 23:21

No but it would harm him and my children, family friends etc.

Me terminating a pregnancy wouldn't and in fact could be in their best interests.

You are either being obtuse or stupid if you do not see the difference between a person and a fetus.

KobayashiMaru · 17/07/2013 23:22

It isn't legally considered a person though, the law is the same as the UK, in fact. So no, you're still not really answering me at all.

farewellfarewell · 17/07/2013 23:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 23:31

Tbh I can't respect the opinion of anyone who thinks that a woman's rights trump that of the foetus up until they have given birth. I personally think it's taking your political views to extremes and throwing common sense out the window to not consider the foetus a person with a life of its own even if it is fully developed and perfectly capable of surviving outside of the mother. Some of you genuinely believe that should be the case to fulfil your 'pro-choice' ideals. I can't take you seriously if you actually believe that.

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 23:33

could be in their best interests? So do you think we should put disabled people out of their misery then? Make the decision about whether their life is worth living or not?

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 23:35

It's right to life is acknowledged Koba.

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 23:35

Its - stupid autocorrect!

ShadowsCollideWithPeople · 17/07/2013 23:37

'however those women who do not support abortion rights are misogynists? !' Well, yes, Farewell, I believe that they are. Women can be misogynists too, you know. In fact, much as the plural of anecdote is not data, let me tell you about the two anti choice / pro forced birth women that I know. One believes that abortion is always murder, that it is not a feminist issue. She also regularly says that she hopes her son is gay (even though he would be condemned by the church to which she subscribes for it), as she would hate for another woman to ever take her son away from her. Clearly she is a misogynist, otherwise why would she fear other women so much, or believe that they were only waiting to take her son away from her.

The other is heavily involved with the Iona Institute. Given that they are a deeply misogynistic organisation, I dare say that anyone involved with them must also be a misogynist. Why on earth would anyone align themselves with David Quinn and his ilk if they didn't have utter contempt for women?

As I said, the plural of anecdote is not data, but my personal experience of anti-choice / pro forced birth-ers is that they are inherently misogynistic.

bumbleymummy · 17/07/2013 23:42

Anti-choice/ pro forced birthers Hmm perhaps I should start referring to pro-choicers as Anti-foetus/pro-abortionists ...

skylerwhite · 17/07/2013 23:43

I think 5madthings is referring to the best interests of her husband, friends as the children she possibly already has, bumbley.

skylerwhite · 17/07/2013 23:43

And, not as.

LucyBabs · 17/07/2013 23:44

I've stayed away from this thread since yesterday but I'm going to dive in anyway.

Bumbleymummy I have to correct you (I am an Irish woman living in Ireland) A foetus is not considered viable until 24 weeks in both the UK and Ireland.

I had a late miscarriage at 20 weeks. I was not entitled to obtain a birth or death cert. This will only happen from 24 weeks onwards.

I am pro abortion in all cases. I would have had a termination with my late miscarriage however Irish law wouldnt allow it. I knew my baby was in pain and had no hope of survival. Yet I had to wait for the baby to die naturally but in pain Confused Angry

I hope there will be another referendum in my life time, for my daughters sake.

Ireland needs to be brought into the modern world kicking and screaming it seems...

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