To feel glad/relieved Ireland is voting through Abortion Bill

[ARealDame]

Its only a bare minimum - in the case of a woman's life being threatened - but it is also a massive sea change, on this sensitive issue. The vote in the Lower House was 127:31.

(Mary Kenny wrote very interestingly in the Times about it - saying that although the Church has played a role, much of the opposition was to do with Ireland's fear of "depopulation". Partly because of Ireland's history - famine, mass emigration. But also due to a rural pro-natalist mindset. In agricultural communities another child is "another pair of hands". In cities, another child is "another mouth to feed".)

Suppose it depends on who you know wiggles. I have to agree with NornIron as far as the opinion of my NI friends go.

I was shocked when someone I know who is from Ireland and has been brought up and attended things where there's a pro life message, he believed that abortions are carried out with salt on end of something and is used to burn the baby to death. Was even shown a video of a baby in the womb trying to move away from it. I understand if he feels strongly about pro life but I was shocked that he didn't know the facts. How can you decide your views on something if your force fed misleading information

Youth Defence and their ilk are scary, dangerous people

Wiggle that's what you want and that's fine, and I can totally see your point of view. Again I am not judging the right to abortion/ I am not pro life/ pro choice, though I do admit I would be more pro life than pro choice.
Most people here know that changes have to be made to allow it in certain circumstances and I agree with this too.
But look at any option poll, the belfast telegraph did one, the Irish news? Funny this is one issue both sides of our community mostly agree on. The majority of people here are happy with our abortion laws and do not want them to be freely available like in the rest of the UK.
Maybe we are not as liberal here? I don't know? But I for one am glad of it and it certainly does not make our country less civilized than England, nor does in make English women any more, or less superior than us, or in fact any other country in the world that does not have the same views/laws/opinions as those as the English people

Actually, NornIronmum, the Bel Tel poll showed that only 26.9% of those surveyed were happy with the status quo. So I'm not see where you're getting 'the majority of people are happy with our abortion laws' from. You're rather arrogantly presuming to speak on behalf of most people.

And yes, Northern Ireland is strikingly less liberal than the rest of the UK, and the rest of Western Europe actually (much like ROI). That's why it took a European Court ruling in 1993, for instance, for homosexuality to be decriminalised. Another shameful episode.

Yes skyler white, shameful indeed.
But let's have a look at England shall we? Any shameful episodes in this county's history? We may not be liberal here, fair enough I agree, and you are wrong to say that I am assuming to speak for most people, and actually the opinion in the belfast telegraph was that of the law, before the special conditions came out. Now that they are there, the majority are happy with it. The politicians we have here, we voted for ourselves and continue to do so, every person in Northern Ireland is not going to agree with every law or change that has been passed, you only have to look at the weekends violence to see that. But most people here, are happy that abortion is not available in the same way it is in the rest of the UK, not every one is going to agree on everything? Just because you think it's right does not make me wrong for thinking that it is wrong

Here is the latest poll in belgast telegraph. Saying 45 percent want the law to change, meaning as I have stated repeatedly here again and again that the majority of people here are happy with the current law.

More than one in four people in Northern Ireland support a woman?s right to choose on abortion, an exclusive Belfast Telegraph poll has revealed.

'The opinion in the Belfast Telegraph was that of the law before the special conditions came out'.

What point are you trying to make? I'm sorry, i cant understand this at all. What special conditions under the law? Like I said earlier, abortion in NI is governed under legislation from 1861 and 1945. Nothing has been passed since then.

You're coming across as slightly dementedly anti-English, do you realise this?

See to me, it doesn't matter whether people view abortion as right or wrong - the fact is that NI is in the UK but I do not have the same rights over my body as a fellow UK citizen - that is ridiculous, unfair and very very wrong.

Read the article properly. It states that 26.9% were happy with the current abortion laws, including the 'don't knows'.

Fine wiggle, but it's not just about you is it? It's about what the majority want.

it seems you aren't in the majority though, norniron. So if you are happy to go along with the majority, you're happy to change the law to be more liberal, aren't you?

Except it shpukdnt be about what the majority want, abortion is a personal choice, women have the right to bodily autonomy, its a basic human right!

If you dotn want an abortion don't have one, no-ome will force you to have one but stop dictating what other women can do.

Irelands abortion laws are a joke, and they dot prevent abortion, they just make it more difficult for those that need.

Religion and politics have NO place in a woman's uterous, it is for her and her alone to decide.

And yes I will campaign against and support others campaigning against misogynistic abortion laws anywhere in the world, because I support womems rights to bodily autonomy.

You choose to see it as a country where women are worse off. I see it as a country where a foetus is better off and I don't think that's a bad thing.

Skyler white, I am perfectly capable of thank you very much, we do have education here also now, it's amazing we can all read now.
Here is the full article
The results suggest the public here is sharply divided over the issue. Another 26% believe that the laws should be toughened so that terminations are only available when a mother would die if the pregnancy was to continue.

The poll provides a fascinating insight into views on one of the most controversial subjects in our society, brought into the spotlight recently by the Marie Stopes clinic in Belfast and the death of Savita Halappanavar in the Republic.

Currently, the law states terminations can be performed only under certain conditions: if the pregnancy involves a greater risk to the physical or mental health of the woman, or her existing children, than having a termination.

All Executive parties except Alliance, which allows a free vote on the issue, have policies strongly against changing the laws.

But the poll results show that the political establishment does not reflect the range of opinion among voters and potential voters.

The findings come from a major survey commissioned by the Belfast Telegraph and carried out by LucidTalk, members of the British Polling Council (BPC).

A weighted sample of 1,130 adults was surveyed between November 6 and 23; 90% were questioned by telephone and the rest interviewed face to face.p

They were asked: ?Free abortion is currently allowed in Northern Ireland where there is the likelihood of serious and long-term danger to a prospective mother?s mental or physical wellbeing if her pregnancy continues. Which, if any, of these statements do you agree with??

The first of four options was: ?Abortion should be available to any woman who chooses it after being counselled on alternatives.?

This is marginally more liberal than the situation which applies in the rest of the UK, where the approval of two doctors is required.

The results showed that 25.9% agreed with this proposition. The proportion agreeing was roughly the same across the two main religious groups (28.3% of Protestants and 27.8% of Catholics).

It is always a bad thing when a fetus takes precedent over the woman who is carrying it, its a very slippery slope to give the unborn rights over a woman's body.

then ergo you think a foetus is more important than a woman.

Which, for me personally, means your opinion is not one I will listen to.

So in this article it says 29 percent agreed that
The first of four options was: ?Abortion should be available to any woman who chooses it after being counselled on alternatives.?
26 percent said there should be none at all and the laws toughened. And the others to keep it as it is.
Now you do the math here, that Is one in four who want change, as is the headline of the article!
Hardly a majority is it?

Not takes precedent/is more important. Just that it is respected as another life/potential life.

25.9% agreed with the proposition, not 29%

No chunderalla. Of course not, many things were wrong, but we wanted a democracy and this is what happens. Majority rule.