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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think if a man doesn't want a baby he should make it his business to wear a condom

434 replies

JaffaMyCake · 15/07/2013 11:57

A friend of mine has got pregnant off a casual FWB situation. She's ok with this and intends to keep the baby even though she isn't in a relationship with the father.

However the father has gone absolutely ballistic, called her a bitch etc and demands she has an abortion. He's adamant he doesn't want the baby or to pay child support.

The situation regarding contraception is that it was just never discussed and they continually had unprotected sex for about 3 months. He never asked if she was on the pill and she never told him she was.

So AIBU to think if he so adamantly did not want a baby with this woman he should have bloody well used protection, regardless of whether she suggested it or not?

OP posts:

MrsHoarder · 15/07/2013 21:08

And whilst ds is still a baby I have warned friends in casual relationships that women do this and advised always taking their own condoms. So I am all for the men not becoming parents against their will.

BoneyBackJefferson · 15/07/2013 21:09

Clouds

I don't agree with all Myhumps posts but in the case of your post
"why shouldn't another person be forced to carry a child they didn't want but knowingly helped create?" I agree with her.

On the one hand (even taking in to account the highly possible duplicitous nature of the woman involved) even when wearing a condom a child being conceived is possible. It is a known consequence of sex.

To try and take away the rights of a person over control of their body is (for me) beyond contempation.

McNewPants2013 · 15/07/2013 21:13

It both the adults responsibility to use contraception.

SarahAndFuck · 15/07/2013 21:13

Which country are you in Clouds?

And why do you think "It's okay to have unprotected sex, ignoring the fact that it potentially puts lives at risk, because the woman should be using contraception for both of you. But don't worry, if she isn't she can have a nice easy termination. Or think herself lucky to be giving birth while you take her to court to waive your responsibilities" is a good message to give to your son/s?

Because I'm telling you, "Use a condom/don't have sex without thinking of the consequences" is a far better message to give to them.

lottieandmia · 15/07/2013 21:15

I haven't read whole thread but YANBU.

He doesn't bother asking about contraception and then wonders why a pregnancy results? He is as responsible as her and should pay child support.

CloudsAndTrees · 15/07/2013 21:15

Sarah, what I find objectionable is that is is so completely different for the other sex.

he has no right to what goes on with the woman's body

Or to what happens to the child.

A woman can't waive her risks in the way you think a man should be able to waive his responsibilities

Not completely, no. But she can always decide on the most important thing, which is whether the baby is born or not.

Being held responsible for your own actions doesn't seem to work with some men at the moment does it, so why would they get any better with your get out of fatherhood free card?

It doesn't work with some women either, but if the whole thing were changed, and a man had actively chosen to be responsible for their child by being on the birth certificate or by not legally waiving their rights, then that could lead to men being forced to be more responsible. The law could take more power to ensure that men pay for their children, because there's a lot of men that started out wanting to play Daddy and that now haven't paid a penny for years. It could make men more accountable for their choice if they were made to make one at the start of the pregnancy, and that would work out better for all concerned.

If he doesn't want to do that, he should not leave the responsibility of contraception to everyone but himself.

I agree with this, but I think if it's going to be that way, then it has to be the same for both sexes, neither of whom have any choice over which sex they are.

CloudsAndTrees · 15/07/2013 21:18

Because I'm telling you, "Use a condom/don't have sex without thinking of the consequences" is a far better message to give to them.

Oddly enough, that's what I'm planning on doing.

lottieandmia · 15/07/2013 21:19

Clouds - I don't understand your perspective at all. It sounds pretty misogynistic tbh. Everyone knows sex can result in a pregnancy and if a man is certain he doesn't want a baby then of course he should use a condom.

D0oinMeCleanin · 15/07/2013 21:20

I honestly think I am going to weep with despair.

Clouds, the man makes his choice when he chooses not to use a condom knowing all of the risks that it entails. That is when he gets to chose. I would say that 99.99% of men old enough to participate in intercourse know that unprotected sex can lead to pregnancy.

OP's friend did not steal his sperm, he willingly gave it to her, without considering the consequences of this. If he was so against becoming a father, he should have taken responsibility for his own contraception. Condoms are not hard to come by these, they sell them at petrol stations, fgs.

No-one is forcing the poor menz to become fathers, they are making themselves fathers by expecting everyone else to take care of their fertility.

lottieandmia · 15/07/2013 21:21

It's different for man because they don't have to go through either an abortion or childbirth. So they should take responsibility for contraception as much as the woman.

IfNotNowThenWhen · 15/07/2013 21:23

It is shocking MyHumps. Any of those men would have been horrified had I then a) got pregant and b) expected child support.
Hopefully that would never happen, as I have a coil, but not even to be asked is awful-and I would never go condom free in a non-relationship anyway.

McNewPants2013 · 15/07/2013 21:24

Cloud it seems like the women here is going to be a single parent.

It will effect her a hell of a lot more than the father. All he has to do is pay for the child that through his actions help to create.

IfNotNowThenWhen · 15/07/2013 21:25

And I must say to BoneyBack-this woman was an idiot, yes. But duplicitous? No.
She never told him she was on the pill or similar. He never asked.

McNewPants2013 · 15/07/2013 21:26

Condoms are free in family planning, so it just pure laziness.

D0oinMeCleanin · 15/07/2013 21:29

Even if the woman did tell him she was on the pill (which, yes is morally wrong) he still should have used a condom if he did not want to become a father.

To rely on another person to take their pill on time, not forget a day, not become ill and all of the other things that can go wrong with the pill, if you do not want to become a father, is a very, very big risk.

Take responsibility for your own contraception if you do not want to become a parent. Women have to, why shouldn't men? Are they not clever enough?

revealall · 15/07/2013 21:33

I remember my father having "the" chat with me .He me that I should always be careful because it was always the woman that got pregnant and therefore would be lumped with the responsibility. This was obviously based assumption that I didn't want a baby.

So what happens if I did?

Son's should be told that if they don't want the responsibility of fatherhood they should be careful because sometimes women might want a baby. It's not complicated.

SarahAndFuck · 15/07/2013 21:35

I really don't think you understand Clouds.

He has no right to what goes on with the woman's body Or to what happens to the child

which is why he needs to use his own contraception if he doesn't want to be placed in that position.

A woman can't waive her risks in the way you think a man should be able to waive his responsibilities Not completely, no. But she can always decide on the most important thing, which is whether the baby is born or not.

Not at all. The risks are the risks, and in pregnancy and termination you have no idea what might go wrong. Terminations are risky, pregnancy is risky, giving birth is risky. You make your choice but nobody has a crystal ball. The UK has a dreadful rate for baby loss and risk to mothers. And you can't go to court and say "actually I don't fancy being harmed or damaged by this pregnancy/termination, write me a waiver so everything will be fine."

Being held responsible for your own actions doesn't seem to work with some men at the moment does it, so why would they get any better with your get out of fatherhood free card? It doesn't work with some women either, but if the whole thing were changed, and a man had actively chosen to be responsible for their child by being on the birth certificate or by not legally waiving their rights, then that could lead to men being forced to be more responsible. The law could take more power to ensure that men pay for their children, because there's a lot of men that started out wanting to play Daddy and that now haven't paid a penny for years. It could make men more accountable for their choice if they were made to make one at the start of the pregnancy, and that would work out better for all concerned.

You can't opt into being responsible for a child you have created through choice or by accident/irresponsibility. Your idea of waiving responsibility or opting into it is bizarre. By design of nature men can already opt out, just by not being the one to continue a pregnancy or terminate it and by easily walking away crying about how unfair things are, and you want them to have legal rights to make walking away easier on them?

If he doesn't want to do that, he should not leave the responsibility of contraception to everyone but himself. I agree with this, but I think if it's going to be that way, then it has to be the same for both sexes, neither of whom have any choice over which sex they are.

I'm going to put my full words in here. "It shouldn't come as a surprise to any man to realise that if he has unprotected sex that results in a pregnancy, he may have to face up to his responsibilities to his child, including financially. Which brings us right back to the point. If he doesn't want to do that, he should not leave the responsibility of contraception to everyone but himself."

Nowhere have I said that the responsibility should lay entirely with the man. I've said it shouldn't lay entirely with the woman. Both parties should take control of their own contraception but it seem to me especially important to do so when, as you have said so often, MEN HAVE NO OTHER WAY TO CONTROL AN UNWANTED PREGNANCY. Both parties should take responsibility and if they don't, crying "it's not fair" just doesn't cut it.

Pilgit · 15/07/2013 21:38

this brings to mind my friends mums reaction when she found out friend was pregnant (product of an affair - all very messy) - I happened to be there, knitting in the corner (yes I did feel like I was at the guillotine) she asked about contraception to which my friend said she was on the pill (she messed it up and didn't realise) in a resigned tone of voice 'of darling, there are worse things you can catch than a baby.'

but in answer to the question - yes he bloody should take responsibility for his actions - either use a condom or take responsibility for the consequences.

Buddhagirl · 15/07/2013 21:56

OPs friend might be posting in conception

"That could be where I've been going wrong as I never hold my legs up after making love. Mind you I might as well be honest as you don't know me but my partner or rather friend with benefits does not know I am ttc, so I think he'd wonder why I had my legs up after the event! I see him Wed and Fri just to make love there is no commitment. Although there will be no love making tommorow as A.f arrived today (sad face). We are using each other, really. There is Absolutly no argument that what I am doing is deciectful I know that, but what do I do wait for Mr Right forever, and and needs can/do make a person deciectful. I am certainly not doing this to trap him. I mean once I am pregnant he is free to go or to stick around. If he does opt not to stick around well the world will still turn. It's not like I am a stranger to being a single mum. If I am lucky enough to fall pregnant I will just say it was a happy accident.
I find quite a lot of sperm leaks out of me. Carry on putting your legs in the air after making love it can't do any harm can it.
I guess all I can do is keep having fun trying and hope for the best.
"

Or there is 2 women doing the same thing.

Probably the latter.

movingonandup · 15/07/2013 22:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps · 15/07/2013 22:13