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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not promise my MIL set "visiting rights" to my baby?

248 replies

Moominmamma86 · 14/07/2013 01:51

I had my first baby ten months ago and I've just gone back to work two days a week for now. I'm really lucky that my mum is happy to look after my ds and I'm comfortable with that arrangement both because I'm close to my mum and have a good relationship with her where we can talk things over re childcare issues and she is non-pushy about things, and also because DS is very happy with her.

My MIL lives two hours away and I don't know her very well partly because I'd only been with DP for a year when I unexpectedly fell pregnant. I find her quite difficult to relax around for various reasons but I do want her to feel involved as well. Just to give an idea of how the background, since ds was born we've visited them twice including over his first Christmas, been for a weeks' holiday to Scotland at the end of June. She/they have visited us on a number of other occasions too and overall we've probably seen them once a month or maybe a bit less. The reason I'm being so specific about that is that she is currently demanding that she can visit every four weeks. Obviously with the distance that means her staying in our flat and being there for several days at a time. We've arranged for her to come three weeks running in August (something she is happy to do) and look after my ds while I'm working.

I'm fine with her coming and staying, the problem is that I'm finding her general approach unacceptably pushy. She said to my DP that she wants to make sure she sees her grandson once a month so I called her to talk about it, and said we were looking forward to seeing her but could we keep the arrangement flexible, and make plans when we see her next. She just kept saying that she wanted to be sure to visit every four weeks and do the childcare and she felt that was a "reasonable expectation", so I felt backed into a corner. Eventually said that I didn't want to be pushed into committing to that and I "hoped that didn't sound horrible". She said she thought that was horrible, and we then had a stilted conversation about the weather and hung up.

I'm honestly not trying to stop her from seeing my ds but this has really put my back up, on top of the fact that she invites herself to stay and generally doesn't give me much choice about things (at least not without being rude myself). Recently I had plans with my family and she rang up on the tuesday of that week saying she wanted to come that weekend and it was just a really awkward position to be put in. And now of course I'm the bad guy for not agreeing to the once a month thing but I just don't want to set up that expectation as I feel we should be allowed to live our own lives and she should wait for an invitation. In practise we will see her more than once a month at times but other times it will be less and I don't see why I should be made to feel guilty about it.

Or am I being unreasonable? Should I just say yes?

OP posts:
MrsOakenshield · 16/07/2013 14:26

right, so it's a matter of semantics. Because, if I invite someone over and they proceed to accept that invite and come over, they are then visiting me.

What you are saying is that GPs shouldn't invite themselves over? Which I still don't agree with in such a blanket-ban fashion - what if my MiL is going to be in our neck of the woods and rings up so say 'I'm going to be nearby on Thursday, would it be OK to pop round and see you and DD?' and wait for me to accept or decline - that's not on? She should ring me to say that she's going to be nearby, but then wait for me to invite her round? I think anyone who feels they have to do the latter is tiptoeing around that person a lot, and I would not like any GP to feel that they have to do that.

Bonsoir · 16/07/2013 14:29

I don't think it is a question of semantics, but of manners.

Bonsoir · 16/07/2013 14:34

My FOL (and his wife, MOL, before him) don't understand why we are never available when they want to pop round at short notice. The reality is that some families are very busy and plan a lot of things and short notice doesn't work.

We had a recent small tiff with FOL who rang DP one weekday to invite us all over for a pizza evening that Sunday. DP was cross and told him no, that we never go out on Sunday before a school night (not strictly true, but there was a lot on that week). FOL clearly didn't get it, so rang DSS1 to ask him whether we could. DSS1 was much more brutal and told his GF roundly and sharply for even suggesting such a thing before an exam week (DSS1 had final bac exams on the Monday morning).

FOL, on the other hand, rings DP every single morning at 8am to tell him how busy he is with his lunch date and then his dinner date. That's all he ever does - eat lunch and dinner!

fabergeegg · 16/07/2013 14:45

Reading through the discussion here I think we're sticking on what is a very minor point in reality. Do GP have a right to enter their children's married home and participate in babycare?

It's not about 'rights'. It's about relationships. When a DIL enters the in-law's family, she considers it 'decent' if she's welcomed. Whether she has a 'right' to expect that doesn't come into it because it's a relational context, not a court context. If you're close to me, for example, I consider it 'decent' to give you hospitality and fulfil certain obligations to you. If things got to the point where we were all banging on about 'rights', I'd consider the relationship in serious difficulty and start thinking twice about it. So a good access arrangement has to start with a constructive attitude and an open hand, on both sides.

When I had my DD, I wanted everyone who knew her to love her, despite the fact that I knew my PIL detested me and made it clear to my husband that they would rather he divorced. More than having a good relationship with PIL, I wanted our family to be sustainable and to have healthy boundaries. This is a foundation stone of a good relationship and is indicative of a wise, sensible DIL, not someone with an attitude problem. But I think my PIL were waiting to see how I'd make it difficult for them... for example, at my instigation, they were invited them to the hospital on the day after my C section. My FIL, having agreed to this in advance, then booked a business appointment that afternoon and announced he wanted to send his MIL in his place. Two and a half weeks later, PIL was making furious phone calls, declaring vehemently that grandparents have rights and could get those rights in court - if they wished to, which he didn't of course... Our crime? My MIL wanted my DD to be taken to a family function sixty miles away, on DH's day off. At that time I couldn't walk, hadn't been downstairs since returning from hospital and was practically drooling with pain medication. I couldn't give a damn about their rights.

Nothing - but nothing comes before a rested, peaceful family unit.

So we introduced a rule. You don't get the baby if you're not playing a supportive role in the life of the family. In that context, PIL didn't have a 'right' to see our DD - they had a responsibility to support us and to be loving grandparents to DD. Similarly, we have a responsibility to create as nurturing an environment for DD as we can - and that would ideally involve having PIL's involvement. Of course it would.

But we couldn't make it work. With hindsight, my PIL's inclination to believe I would deny them access to our DD made them more suspicious and resentful than ever. I think it would have been a lot easier if the concept of grandparents' rights had never occurred to them. Realising that all things were never going to change, we decided that our DD was better off without all the aggro, on balance, so we drew a line in the sand and walked away. There's not a day goes by that I think about it and wonder if I couldn't make it work, because I know the loss and sadness this estrangement has created. But at the end of the day, we had our DD to raise her well, not to make anyone happy - not us and certainly not our parents.

I think the grandparents' rights issue is backfiring - since it's only enforceable if a relationship is already in place, a lot of parents who aren't sure if they can keep contact are simply withdrawing to be on the safe side. That was certainly a factor in our decision.

EvieanneVolvic · 16/07/2013 14:50

We had a recent small tiff with FOL who rang DP one weekday to invite us all over for a pizza evening that Sunday. DP was cross and told him no, that we never go out on Sunday before a school night (not strictly true, but there was a lot on that week). FOL clearly didn't get it, so rang DSS1 to ask him whether we could. DSS1 was much more brutal and told his GF roundly and sharply for even suggesting such a thing before an exam week (DSS1 had final bac exams on the Monday morning).

Bonsoir PLEASE tell me you are joking. You get CROSS with people for inviting you round (because , shock horror, they don't know your rules and regulations which are clearly not that rigid when it suits you?) and you are proud of DSS for being rude to his grandfather.

That's it...I am clearly in a twilight zone. Mrs Oakenshield when I have a DiL I hope she is like you!

Bonsoir · 16/07/2013 14:54

DP is very cross with him! FOL is hedonistic and lazy to the extreme and yet thinks that we should always be available when he wants to see us.

EvieanneVolvic · 16/07/2013 15:00

You mean he is keen to entertain you to pizza at his house. What a bastard!!!!

HappyAsEyeAm · 16/07/2013 15:01

We have two DSs (5yo and 1yo) and my ILs live within ten minutes' walk of our house. My parents, on the other hand, live 5 hours' drive away. It is really important to me that the DSs have a good and strong relationship with both sets of GPs.

Due to the distance, my parents stay for 3 or 4 nights when they come and see us. And it is usually them coming to us as they are both retired, and DH and I both work, and DS1 is at school. So it is easier for us that they come and stay with us. We have enough room.

I would estimate that they come to us for 3 or 4 nights every 5 or 6 weeks or so. At the moment, they have not visted for about 6 weeks, but they are coming next week and will look after the DSs for 3 days whilst I am at work. This is the longest they have ever gone without seeing them. My parents are very helpful and practical, and don't require entertaining. Its actually a battle to get them to sit down when they come! My mum cooks, cleans, tidies up etc, and my dad gardens and does odd jobs. They would like to do more for us, and see us more often (actually I think they would move in if they could Smile) but they respect that we need time to ourselves and that we have other friends and commitments to work around.

I would do everything I could to accommodate my parents visiting every six weeks or so, and I would expect DH to do this too. This doesn't mean staying in for the whole time they are with us - he is welcome to do whatever he would normally have planned - sport, visiting friends, maybe we would go out for dinner as a couple whilst my parents babysit in the evening. And I might have a night out with my friends too. And if we have a weekend away, holiday or whatever planned which would coincide with them coming, we would either change our plans, or change the weeknd that they were due to arrive. Whatever suits us all. I suppose we tend to arrange dates for visits about a month in advance of them happening.

My parents deserve that time with the DC and the DC adore them It is so important for me that they have this relationship, and it makes me really happy.

Bonsoir · 16/07/2013 15:03

The night before his first grandson's bac exam?

FrauMoose · 16/07/2013 15:04

You mean he is keen to entertain you to pizza at his house. What a bastard!!!!

My feelings entirely

MrsOakenshield · 16/07/2013 15:10

at the point of invitation (and this is about your FOL inviting you to him, which is what you said upthread was fine to do, not daring to visit you in your home of course) did you FOL know he had an exam? Because, from your post, your DP told him that you never do things on Sundays - no mention of an exam. And how very dare he invite you round for a pizza (hardly a long social engagement). Bastard.

(Oh, and the point I was making was about semantics - you said that GPs had no right to visit, and from your subsequent post it transpired that what you meant was you didn't want them to invite themselves round. Not the same thing, is all I was saying. Though tbh it sounds like you don't want them to try to see you at all - I feel quite sorry for them, they clearly can't win.)

EvieanneVolvic · 16/07/2013 15:14

The night before his first grandson's bac exam?

Well maybe, maybe not. Does he have a copy of the exam timetable on his fridge at home? And there are those who feel that chilling out in a non alcoholic way is the very best thing to do on the ven of an exam. Either way, it hardly seems a capital offence and I am completely staggered that you are apparently proud of your DSS for being brutal and speaking to his GF roundly and sharply (quite a neat trick to do both at once, I grant you). Clearly you are training him o dilike your FoL as much as you do. Nice !

Bonsoir · 16/07/2013 15:15

Personally, I think that a grandfather who doesn't know the national bac exam schedule when his eldest of three grandchildren is taking his bac that year deserves to have his head bitten off!

Bonsoir · 16/07/2013 15:16

DSS1 is trained to be intolerant of silly fools, yes Grin

EvieanneVolvic · 16/07/2013 15:18

Intolerance is one thing. Being openly rude is another.

Personally, I think that a grandfather who doesn't know the national bac exam schedule when his eldest of three grandchildren is taking his bac that year deserves to have his head bitten off!

Okay, I admit it, I've been had. You are joking aren't you. Nice one!

Bonsoir · 16/07/2013 15:20

This is national news kind of stuff in France, Evie. It would be like not knowing there is a presidential election coming up! Except that the bac is every summer.

EvieanneVolvic · 16/07/2013 15:26

Oh ffs get a grip Bonsoir....there is a world of difference between knowing that the BAC is generally imminent and deserving to have his head bitten off for not having your grandson's exact schedule engraved on your forehead.

The point is, would a simple 'No thanks, that's really kind DS1 has got exams the next day' not have sufficed? I am still puzzled as to why your DP got cross with him.

But then I cannot believe I am still paying you the huge compliment of taking this jug of arse gravy seriously

hardboiledpossum · 16/07/2013 15:31

I think yabu. I have nothing in common with my mil but she loves ds and wants to see him every week so she comes and spends an afternoon with us every week. It makes her happy.

Family is really important to me and I want ds to have a close relationship with his grandparents. I speak to my own parents most days and also see them at least once a week.

SJisontheway · 16/07/2013 15:34

Fabergeegg, I agree with your last post. Its about healthy relationships, not rights. It is sad that the relationship with your IL's broke down, but from what you say it was inevitable. From what the op has said her relationship with mil is not at this point. A bit of compromise could salvage the relationship with benefits all round.

Phineyj · 16/07/2013 15:47

OP, do the weekly Skype thing if your MIL uses a computer. It takes a lot of the heat off if they can 'see' them regularly. Also, Yy to sending your DP to see her with the baby. I often visit my DPs without DH as I am often free in the day when he is not. Therefore I don't see why I always have to accompany him on IL visits. Mind you my MIL is pleased to see me, but if yours isn't particularly, use the time to get things done.

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 16/07/2013 17:42

I agree SJisontheway

The reason the OP is uncomfortable is that she (the OP) hasn't built a strong relationship with her MIL, and then the baby comes along and the MIL (fearful of not having a strong relationship with the baby), tries to impose her will on her DIL.

Perhaps the OP can take some of the fear away, and hopefully if she does this the MIL will calm down a bit and build a relationship with her DIL.

But it could go the other way

NanaNina · 16/07/2013 19:22

Hi SpecialAgent I am answering your post you wrote on Monday this week. I am confused about your confusion in relation to the 2 points that I made and which you have highlighted in bold (I only mention this so that you will know which ones I mean) as I can't understand how my points contradict each other. I was concerned that someone had said that it is the "Mother and baby's decision about visits from PILs" (or something like that - not sure how the baby can make the decision(!) and I aske if the father had a say in decision making or is he just the sperm donor. I don't think she relied and I can't remember who it was.

My second comment related to the fact that on these MIL threads I have very often seen MNers piling in to tell the DIL that she needs to tell her DP/DH to "grow a pair" and tell his mother or father they must/must not do this that or the other. I am thinking more of other threads as I don't think that has been said on this one.

I have read and re-read your post and I can't quite understand what you are asking, so this is a bit of a guess (am not blaming you btw, it's probably me not getting it into my head - I blame the ageing brain cells!) Your question seems to be around who takes up an issue with a MIL or mother when the DIL is upset about something or where they are both concerned. I think this depends very much on the individual. Over the years I have had a few altercations with DIL No 1 but we have always sorted it out quite quickly and I don't think either of us wanted my son involved and he would be more than happy to keep out of it! Always one to avoid conflict at any price. Ditto with DIL No 2.

I think wherever possible the communication needs to be between the person who perceives they have been slighted and the person who they think has slighted them and I think that is true for any situation/relationship in life. I did say when I first posted that I hadn't read all the posts and I honestly didn't think any of your previous posts were irrelevant. To be honest on these long threads I can't remember who said what - ageing brain cells again!

Thank you to the people who have said nice things about my post.

Fabergeeg you are accusing me of not reading the posts and not bothering to respond etc. I think you posted this on Monday or maybe earlier today - that's just 2 days! I did write a long post after midnight last night and lost it, and have been busy today helping a neighbour with her autistic son (I do this once a week) and others also offer help on other days so that his single parent mum can get some respite. Incidentally her MIL visits about twice a year for a couple of hours!! Maybe you should not assume someone has "left" the conversation if they don't post for a couple of days.

I think it's interesting that Evienne and MrsOakshield have been perceived as MILs as they are in the main supportive of both sets of grandparents being able to have contact with their grandchild. It seemed obvious to me that these MNers are just sensible and reasonable young mums who understand that it is in the child's interests to grow up knowing he/she is loved and cared for by both sets of grandparents and for that matter any other member of the extended family.

I can't help but notice that so many MNers on here are coming out strongly against what has now been called "visiting rights" and yet are suggesting imposing definite boundaries around visits from the ILs. Ironic really.

I think the discussion has become a little convoluted and for that reason I may not post again but then again if a post comes up that is interesting then I might. Incidentally the thing about writing a book was not serious - it was meant as a slightly flippant comment about the need for something to be written on this issue, but it would take a better brain than mine.

NanaNina · 16/07/2013 19:26

Ah I'm back already. I am seriously thinking of starting a thread about the difficulties that MILs have with their DILs from the MILs perspectives as I don't think this has been done. As I said I have several close women friends who have difficulties with their DILs and they are women I have known for many years and so know they are not the pushy "toxic" MIL that are often complained about on these threads.

WinkyWinkola · 16/07/2013 19:36

Isn't that what Gransnet is for? To spout off about all these hateful dils?

Sleep404 · 16/07/2013 20:16

Nana, that doesn't mean they don't exist, or that all DiLs are nice. There will obviously be varying degrees of controlling MiLs and overly sensitive DiLs.

Mine, drives me crazy, but she loves my DC so I suck it up and try to ignore all. Similar to the OP, she and FiL want to come over a lot amongst other things. Last week they rang to ask us out. It wasn't convenient and DH said so. They said ok and then turned up anyway, stayed all afternoon, so our plans went out the window. Now if you spoke to any of MiL friends, they'd never believe that of her. Nor would she see it herself. She is forever telling me how interfering her own MiL was. The irony seems to be lost on her.