To not promise my MIL set "visiting rights" to my baby?

[Moominmamma86]

I had my first baby ten months ago and I've just gone back to work two days a week for now. I'm really lucky that my mum is happy to look after my ds and I'm comfortable with that arrangement both because I'm close to my mum and have a good relationship with her where we can talk things over re childcare issues and she is non-pushy about things, and also because DS is very happy with her.

My MIL lives two hours away and I don't know her very well partly because I'd only been with DP for a year when I unexpectedly fell pregnant. I find her quite difficult to relax around for various reasons but I do want her to feel involved as well. Just to give an idea of how the background, since ds was born we've visited them twice including over his first Christmas, been for a weeks' holiday to Scotland at the end of June. She/they have visited us on a number of other occasions too and overall we've probably seen them once a month or maybe a bit less. The reason I'm being so specific about that is that she is currently demanding that she can visit every four weeks. Obviously with the distance that means her staying in our flat and being there for several days at a time. We've arranged for her to come three weeks running in August (something she is happy to do) and look after my ds while I'm working.

I'm fine with her coming and staying, the problem is that I'm finding her general approach unacceptably pushy. She said to my DP that she wants to make sure she sees her grandson once a month so I called her to talk about it, and said we were looking forward to seeing her but could we keep the arrangement flexible, and make plans when we see her next. She just kept saying that she wanted to be sure to visit every four weeks and do the childcare and she felt that was a "reasonable expectation", so I felt backed into a corner. Eventually said that I didn't want to be pushed into committing to that and I "hoped that didn't sound horrible". She said she thought that was horrible, and we then had a stilted conversation about the weather and hung up.

I'm honestly not trying to stop her from seeing my ds but this has really put my back up, on top of the fact that she invites herself to stay and generally doesn't give me much choice about things (at least not without being rude myself). Recently I had plans with my family and she rang up on the tuesday of that week saying she wanted to come that weekend and it was just a really awkward position to be put in. And now of course I'm the bad guy for not agreeing to the once a month thing but I just don't want to set up that expectation as I feel we should be allowed to live our own lives and she should wait for an invitation. In practise we will see her more than once a month at times but other times it will be less and I don't see why I should be made to feel guilty about it.

Or am I being unreasonable? Should I just say yes?

Something grandparents often fail to appreciate is just how much busier and fuller their children's and grandchdren's lives are than their own. My DP's father and his GF are currently in a strop with me and DP because we have declined their very recent invitation to spend "a few days" with them at their country house this summer, with the three DC. They just cannot fathom that our summer holiday plans were fixed and set in stone many months ago and that we have booked and paid for a very expensive family holiday for the single fortnight we have as a five some. There is no way we can carve out a few days to go down to see them!

Also, I think some grandmothers fantasise about spending a lot of time with grandchildren without taking any account of those grand children's parents' feelings or lives. Which is understandable but not reasonable!

Thanks for all the messages, I really appreciate them.

I think I am going to speak to DP again about his supporting me which he always says he will do but in practise just tries to bury his head in the sand. He's got to say to MIL that it's not on to say I'm horrible just for not agreeing to everything on her terms.

Atm I'm trying to sort out other childcare arrangements for August at least for the majority of the time. I'm not comfortable with relying on MIL for help with things the way they are at the moment. I just need some space and cooling off time and I don't want to feel beholden to her.

We could suggest meeting up soon between where we live just for a lunch and talk things over properly although I do worry that will go wrong.

I think the main message I want to get across to her is that I want her to feel included and of course over the years she will be an important part of DS' life but that at the moment we need to take it one step at a time, get to know each other, keep the arrangements flexible and that she needs to trust that I am not the enemy. If she can't relax and stop trying to call the shots and push for more etc it is just going to cause a continually tense atmosphere and further issues, whereas if she stops forcing the issue she is more than likely to see DS once a month, maybe a little less (or a little more) but that should not be the cause of some big grievance.

I understand where she is coming from emotionally but it still doesn't make it right to make demands and put me in such an uncomfortable position. As a grandparent you have to just be gracious sometimes (well, all of us do) and also know when to back off and when to be patient. That's what I think anyway.

I think you have it fully right there op but I would suggest your dh having the chat with her and you dealing with him. It always comes easier from your own child rather than the in law. I would also see if he could sort things before August since I am sure she has been keeping her calendar free to do you a favour and it would be best all around if that could stay as is. Yanbu IMO.

Can I just pick up on one teensy point which may not be relevant anyway. You have said at least twice that she has called you horrible. That's a little bit disingenuous isn't it, because iirc you said to her 'I don't mean to sound horrible but...' and she responded by saying yes she did think it sounded horrible.

Obviously I don't know the tone of voice you used when you said it, but that kind of phrase very often sounds, and indeed is, a little bit PA, a bit like when people say 'I'm not racist but...' or 'I don't mean to be rude but...' These little caveats just aren't the get out of jail free card that their users sometimes hope they will be, and just cover up something that is indeed rude/horrible. That's possibly why she said what she did, which is not at all the same thing as calling you horrible off the cuff as it were.

Having said all that, I think you do sound like a reasonable kind of gal and your plans for a round table discussion are sound! Good luck!

How about suggesting that she come to you once a month or so and your DP take the baby to hers the next month.

Perhaps it would be easier not to ''talk about it'' at all, and just let the next months visit come and discuss the next visit then .... for either the next month or for in 2 months time (if you're doing the 1 month at yours next month at hers thing).

Say maybe that you will be able to give her an exact date nearer the time, but it will be in 4/5 weeks. Keep it all flexible, but not by too much. After a few months she will see that you intend to keep your word about regular visits, but wont do the EXACTLY EVERY 4 WEEKS thing.

Are you going to discuss it with your dp, or just tell him the message he must deliver? Does he get any say at all? Good luck with that.

You come across mainly as a decent sort so please don't be so cruel as to stop your Mil from caring for DS as arranged just because you're peeved.

Your DP doesn't appear to have a problem with your mum seeing DS so frequently AND he'd like his mum to see DS monthly. Soooo why not go along with it and both mums will be happy, as will DP and, no doubt, DS. You might even like it too.

But you might not like it either. You don't have to go about your life pleasing other people you know. You are allowed to please yourself too sometimes. I know that is considered a crime by some on MN but you are!

But you can do things to make FOUR other people happy.

Evieanne Volvic I know what you mean, I hate it when people say "no offence but", etc. But that was not the tone or the intention of what I said. Having said that I was having to be quite blunt because I felt backed into a corner. But I said "I hope that doesn't sound horrible" to soften it not to be disingenuous and I know she didn't say it off the cuff but she shouldn't have said it at all. It was hurtful.

And martyr yourself if you want to. Why aren't those four other people thinking of anyone else but themselves? Actually 3 other people because the little baby is oblivious.

Luckily I think the op will not allow her mil to railroad her and will come to some perfectly reasonable arrangement that does not allow emotional blackmail to dictate her life.

Another useful thread for me to learn how not to behave as a mil.

I don't think fretfully saying 'I hope that doesn't sound horrible' after denying someone a request they made is the same as a 'no offence but... Pointless off the cuff insult' remark.

op, you are not being unreasonable.

mil is getting to see dgc about once a month for 3 days at a time. just not set in stone. can't understand a lot of people saying you are not letting her see her gc regularly.

the mil is going about it the wrong way. being forceful and demanding will only result in the breakdown of the relationship. op is very accomodating to mil staying, even though she may prefer to have the flat to herself.

YNBU but obviously your MIL's expectations are very different. I've noticed that grandparents seem to talk to each other about the lack of contact they get and stoke each other up to feel entitled. They talk about the courts as if the fact that they could get one afternoon a week access means that they have a right to least as much in a family arrangement. Thinking that they could go to the courts if they wanted to - and go over your head - all adds to the flames. At least in my experience.

I don't think she sounds like she's ever going to be easy. But people like that get worse if you refuse to meet them halfway. She needs something to hold onto, even if it was only four definites in a year with lots of more ad hoc things in other places. That's the way some people work.

Having said that, I'm estranged from my PIL because they did things that makes your MIL sound like Mary Poppins.

I haven't read every post but I am a MIL and of course a mother of 2 sons. With one son and dil there is no problem as I've seen their children every week of their lives as we live close by and I have often met them from school when they were younger.

My other son and dil live in Ireland and have 2 children. I know dil No. 2 is not too keen on having people to stay (be they her own family or ours) and so when they moved over there, I asked her what she thought about us visiting and I suggested once a month and it would mean staying over 3 or 4 nights. She was ok with this, as she likes to know where she is and it has actually turned out to be once every 6 weeks and that works out well for them and us.

Maybe OP your MIL is just wanting to make sure she as well as your mum is an important part of your baby's life. She probably feels a bit jealous of the fact your mum sees so much more of the baby. OK she hasn't gone about it in the most sensitive way, but I think this business of your DP having to tell his mother she shouldn't say you are horrible etc etc is just not on. If I understand you right you said "I hope that doesn't sound horrible" and she said "yes it does" so she didn't introduce the word horrible. I feel sorry for so many men whose wives, partners get them to "have words" with their mother - that can only make the poor woman feel worse.

Finally remember all you MIL bashers that you will all most probably be MILs yourself some day and if you have sons you will also have a DIL. I hope she is kinder than some of you on this post.

I feel sorry for so many men whose wives, partners get them to "have words" with their mother - that can only make the poor woman feel worse.

Maybe the men should talk to their mothers themselves then?

NanaNina Just one point: I get what you say about sons having to have words with their mums - but only up to a point. If it's just gratuitous point-scoring and the guy's being used as a pawn, then of course that's wrong. But there are times when MILs don't observe boundaries and it's very difficult to speak to them as DILs because everything is seen as a potentially threatening move. If DILs do the talking it's more likely to turn into a disaster, but I understand that wouldn't happen with an understanding MIL. They're not all like you though :) Sometimes things have to be addressed, if only to contain the situation and make it more sustainable and stable. I think it's a lot easier for a woman to take coming from her son (who has probably been telling her he needs space for the last 20 years anyway) than from another woman, who may be suspected of harbouring all kinds of malicious plots. If DIL tries to deal with it herself there's all that rushing off to the son to see if he was aware of how horrible she was being - very, very hard to get a good outcome then.

I knew it wouldn't be long until someone rolled out the moronic classic line - "Remember you're going to be a mil one day."

Yes, and the chances are if you don't behave like a bullying, petulant brat all will be well with your ds and dil.

The op had not been horrible. She simply has her own preferences which are entirely reasonable.

Just because they do not tally with her mil's preferences does not make her horrible.

Generally I stand up for MILs but there do seem to be some who want to have an exclusive relationship with the grandchild that by passes the rest of the family. I shall quite probably be one one day and you need to get a good relationship with the DIL from the very start and it be relaxed and enjoyable. I don't think it at all reasonable to have some rigid arrangement and set ideas about what you will do with the child.

It's to do with manners mostly. I've always been nice to my in-laws, but unlike my own parents, the respect they seem to demand is that of a dutiful child rather than an equal adult.

They only live 20 minutes away and once I suggested DH invite them over for a couple of hours one Friday before tea as they had wanted to see us the previous weekend but we couldn't make it.

They came over and seemed happy, but afterwards phoned DH to say it hadn't really been a good time for them to come because we were busy (DD went into her high chair for half an hour during the visit and I was making her tea before that - as well as doing coffee for everyone etc...)

My thinking behind the invite was to let them see they were welcome any time and it didn't always have to be such a formal arrangement - at the time we rarely had the big stretches of free time to sit down that they always wanted. I thought they would be able to see us more often by just being a part of normal family goings on.

They told DH is was bad timing as DD was a bit grumpy. I'm sorry but you can't predict that sort of thing! It isn't always going to be a Kodak moment with a baby!

My annoyance was at the fact that they wouldn't have been asked over at all if it had been left to their son and I thought I was doing a good thing!

They told DH that they wanted longer times together but less often, and although they "appreciated" being asked over on the Friday they hoped we weren't going to make a "habit" of it.

My response - don't worry I won't fuckin' ask them again!

Have you explained why a 2 hour journey each way can't be made in a day? I travel 2 hours for a shopping trip to a city but don't have to stay over! Is it lack of buses or trains or what.

Does she work?

I think the OP said upthread somewhere that her MiL was 70-odd? I know that neither my mum not my MiL (one 70s one late 60s) would want to drive for 4 hours in a single day. I think that's a pretty big ask, to be honest.

if it helps - me and FIL sit down once a year and put in a meet up roughly once a month. generally alternating where we do it (they live 2 hours away and will do a day trip but sometimes we stay there or them with us). However this forward planning is on the proviso that we can alter plans if something else comes up - i.e. change weekend, change location. We do it this formally because we are all very busy people and don't want it to be months between visits. BUT they are fab and not controlling. Could a similar arrngement work? regular contact but without the forced nature of it that you're annoyed about?

pianodoodle That was so shockingly, shockingly rude of them!

I want a family relationship with my family, not formal appointments! Why do some people view that as being disrespectful to ILs? My MIL is very PA and I've come to realise she doesn't like me too much and my FIL is extremely inappropriate and misogynist. I still don't cut them out and insist on a formal relationship (even though MIL acts as though the reason DH takes my side is because I have him under my thumb.. )