To not promise my MIL set "visiting rights" to my baby?

[Moominmamma86]

I had my first baby ten months ago and I've just gone back to work two days a week for now. I'm really lucky that my mum is happy to look after my ds and I'm comfortable with that arrangement both because I'm close to my mum and have a good relationship with her where we can talk things over re childcare issues and she is non-pushy about things, and also because DS is very happy with her.

My MIL lives two hours away and I don't know her very well partly because I'd only been with DP for a year when I unexpectedly fell pregnant. I find her quite difficult to relax around for various reasons but I do want her to feel involved as well. Just to give an idea of how the background, since ds was born we've visited them twice including over his first Christmas, been for a weeks' holiday to Scotland at the end of June. She/they have visited us on a number of other occasions too and overall we've probably seen them once a month or maybe a bit less. The reason I'm being so specific about that is that she is currently demanding that she can visit every four weeks. Obviously with the distance that means her staying in our flat and being there for several days at a time. We've arranged for her to come three weeks running in August (something she is happy to do) and look after my ds while I'm working.

I'm fine with her coming and staying, the problem is that I'm finding her general approach unacceptably pushy. She said to my DP that she wants to make sure she sees her grandson once a month so I called her to talk about it, and said we were looking forward to seeing her but could we keep the arrangement flexible, and make plans when we see her next. She just kept saying that she wanted to be sure to visit every four weeks and do the childcare and she felt that was a "reasonable expectation", so I felt backed into a corner. Eventually said that I didn't want to be pushed into committing to that and I "hoped that didn't sound horrible". She said she thought that was horrible, and we then had a stilted conversation about the weather and hung up.

I'm honestly not trying to stop her from seeing my ds but this has really put my back up, on top of the fact that she invites herself to stay and generally doesn't give me much choice about things (at least not without being rude myself). Recently I had plans with my family and she rang up on the tuesday of that week saying she wanted to come that weekend and it was just a really awkward position to be put in. And now of course I'm the bad guy for not agreeing to the once a month thing but I just don't want to set up that expectation as I feel we should be allowed to live our own lives and she should wait for an invitation. In practise we will see her more than once a month at times but other times it will be less and I don't see why I should be made to feel guilty about it.

Or am I being unreasonable? Should I just say yes?

OP, why can you not ask your DP to be involved here? You are writing as if you are a single parent. Apart from having to deal with a MIL.

You are not going to get consistent agreement here about what is or isn't reasonable in terms of in law contact, how often etc. It really is horses for courses - and no one really knows you or your MIL.

What you need to come up with is an arrangement that suits you and your family. How will you do this if the father of your child will not get involved?

PS bringing 'childcare' into this this complicate things horribly, sorry. If you are allowing her to do a lot of hands on grandparenting with your child to ennable you to work, then it really does compromise you. I appreciate those few weeks in August are by mutual arrangement - but what will you do if she is so upset she cuts those weeks short? Or doesn't come at the last minute?

My dm stays in a different (uk) country. She visits maybe 3 times a year, and we visit once or sometimes twice. She often stays in a hotel near us as knows we have very little space.
She misses changes in the dcs through not seeing them every month, but my 6 year old adores her, and has no trouble knowing exactly who she is etc. We also phone, and I email pictures and videos whenever I take them.
Your mil is being entitled and a bit silly and risks making you back off further, leaving her with less time with the child.I think you are doing enough already OP.

I have found with my own relatives that as people get older they hate uncertainty, my gran finds all this 'well, we'll just decide nearer the time' really stressful. I guess your MIL thinking that her inpromptu phone call to stay the following weekend wasn't appreciated, so why not make it more regular? And, you clearly don't have an issue with her staying over if she's coming for three weeks to care for the baby in the holidays.

I would just say: approximately every four weeks sounds ideal, but let's keep it a bit flexible in case that weekend isn't convenient for either of us.

I've not read all of the above. I didn't have a great relationship with my parents-in-law but now that my kids are older, and I have more than one, I value their help a lot more. They are also a bit jealous of how close I am to my family, who all live near me. I particularly now appreciate the help at 7am when its chaos, which I don't get from my family.

But; being practical. Is there room for some compromise? Ie plan c.3 months ahead? Times when you might want to work late? Your mum on holiday? Not accepting the once a month approach, making it clear dates have to be mutually convenient, sometimes eg the week's summer holiday together would mean no visiting the month before?

I don't see that two hours away is so far that she'd have to stay overnight for a few days???? I would have thought you could have a sunday lunch together once a month - alternating who travels, or even better, find a nice pub-type sunday lunch place halfway...

And I know some people really hate planning but it does help to have things in the diary - I'd agree to the 'once a month' regularity but set the date for each one at the one before so they're only actually in the diary one month in advance.

Is it only MIL that should be flexible? Not you?

That is how this reads.
You could not be flexible about her short notice visit.
You did not want her visiting her son and grandchild because you were going to see your sister. What about him? Your DP? Does he not have anything to say? Could he not be with his mum and his child while you met your sister?

You seem horribly rigid and inflexible.

So she asks to set out a schedule in advance. You cant accept this, because you want her to be flexible around you, not the other way around. And YOU wont be "dictated to".

So are you saying she should ditch plans she has already made because MIL says she is coming .How rude would that be .

So are you saying she should ditch plans she has already made because MIL says she is coming .How rude would that be .

Not saying that, MIL was coming to see her son and baby, not sure how this meant that the two could not be combined?

Bottom line your child your rules .great that she wants to see him but your life should not be made to fit to keep her happy .
You are a young family you don't need all this pressure .
I get what you are saying is that you don't want to be dictated too .Fair play .Don't be . Stick to your guns .
I always think that people who can't see the reality of some threads have an underlying situation that is similar and feel the need to go against logic and reasonable behaviour.

The OP said she was seeing relatives (including her sister) that she hasn't seen very often so I assume she didn't want to combine the 2 so that her relatives had a chance to spend time with the baby.
Afterall, the MIL does see the GC regularly.

Apparently DP jut doesn't want to know because in his opinion OP is being unreasonable. I find that weird cause if I was being U about his mum or other family, DH wouldn't just pick his nose and moan, he'd talk to me about it so things didn't escalate with his family. Sounds like this 'D'P is quite content to have his finger firmly entrenched whilst his DW cops it about how she reacts to his family's ideas or suggestions because he just doesn't wanna know.

Works for him perfectly, doesn't it? Moans to family about how DW is sooo U, and moans to DW about how she's stressing him out. No pressure on him, he gets to keep picking and snuggle back comfortably.

Seriously, talk to your partner OP. Pull that finger out if you have to by force!

But again, OP seriously this time... Don't be okay with a partner who is comfortable with letting you be the bad guy to mummy. That's the sort of thing that becomes a marital problem after a few years.

Tell him to Pull. The. Finger. Out. Even he disagrees with you, he's supposed to talk to you about it, not whine and refuse to talk to his own mum! FFS if DH were that much of a baby, I wouldn't answer and panic him, let him answer at work if he feels so entitled to make you the dart board.

Have to say that I think you are being perfectly reasonable OP.

If you had a strict date every month and something else came up - a friend's birthday, an event in your family - it sounds as though your Mil would refuse to be flexible about switching ; it's just easier not to get locked into that in the first place.

At least if DH refuses to get involved he isn't making clashing arrangements.

I wouldn't even entertain discussions about grandparent rights and whether you are being horrible - just stick to facts and the next date. MIL can either work with you to come up with mutually agreeable plans, or she can have a strop if she likes - just don't give her the opportunity to tell you you're horrible.

The only drawback about wanting someone to be flexible is if you have a basically-not flexible arrangement for them to do childcare at a time you need to work. Because if they then want to go flexible on you because of the other things going on in your life, you're in a bit of trouble.

Sorry op but I just don't see how your mil is being unreasonable. She is obviously upset at having no relationship with her other gc so is being a bit clumsy about trying to stop history repeating itself. I can see how she felt you weren't happy about such short notice for the last visit so she is trying to come up with a solution which benefits all of you not just her. Ie offering childcare rather than demanding to come when you're off together. I use my mum for childcare a couple of days a week, she does a fab job and my kids love her, but there are often days she can't cover and mil comes to cover them. This happens much more than I ever expected when we started.
What I'm trying to say is don't agree to anything you're uncomfortable with but try not to push her away, she'll be devastated and in the long run you'll all lose out. My mil comes down for 2-3 nights and it's a 4 hour drive. Surely 1 or 2 nights would be plenty?

If you do agree to set visiting times every month and MIL refuses to switch if you have something that crops up then what happens if DC birthday falls on a time she wouldn't be scheduled to stay? You then get in a position where she refuses to compromise for you but you have to for her which is hardly fair. Better to leave it at arranging the next visit during the current one, then you can change it to suit everyone, both MiL and you know a few weeks in advance what's happening.

can you not compromise on once every six weeks
my MIL tried to do a twice a month thing bribing with offering to do ironing bringing it back and forth bless her we saw when we were able as with divorced parents if we saw everyone once a month it would have been 3 weekends of family and one for us...

arranged with my mum once every two months as a commitment, any more would have been a bonus, any less a bit unreasonable as 6x a year ain't a lot. I basically asked her what the minimum was she would be happy with and we would work from there...

I think your DP should be the one sorting this out. It also sounds like you and your MIL aren't that far apart in terms of expectation, just in the way it is put across (rudely in her case it seems). In your position I would just be handing the phone to DP when she calls, and getting him to deal with it. He should be used to her ways and rudeness

How about buying her a one way ticket to NZ??

YANBU - you are being kind and considerate and it is not for her to dictate. Stand your very reasonable ground.

Oh god reading this brings back memories, my mil was awful when I had my first baby. It got so I was scared to answer the phone. The only thing that really relieved it was more grand kids coming along from her other son. Ff 10 years and things are generally much better, helped hugely that my hub goes round every Saturday morning for a bit with kids and rings for a chat on way home from work every week. I see them socially when it's an occasion, birthdays, Xmas, bbqs etc. She was another one for following from room to room and even used to get a muslin square and drape it over my shoulder strategically when I was feeding lol. With my second baby I pretended to bf longer than I did cost hey used to send me up to their bedroom with the remote for the TV lol I used to give him a bottle before I went round and then go and watch eastenders with him asleep lol. It gets better I think as kids grow older. The children themselves have no interest in granny politics!

Another one who thinks 2 hrs drive needn't equal an overnight stay, tbh.

If she leaves her home at 7am, she's with you by 9. If she stays till 7pm she's home by 9. That's 10 hrs to get over the drive and relax at yours with baby ....

Anyway ... i think setting long term visiting type plans in stone is a recipe for disaster with ANYONE exept people who are very easy going and will understand/accept you canceling for any reason. Your MIL doesn't sound like one of those people. My own mum isn't either. 2 weeks running of doing the same thing on the same day and she has it in her calender for that day every week for the rest of our lives!

I think throwing in child care is muddying the waters too. Wondering why she is doing most of August? Is your mum away then OP?

Just remember MIL isn't going to around for ever - I have just lost my own mother who fortunately had the pleasure of knowing her dg for 13 and 10 years.

" Obviously with the distance that means her staying in our flat and being there for several days at a time."
"I'd feel mean asking a seventy-odd year old woman to drive both ways and look after a ten month old in the space of two days."

Well, my MIL is older and she happily drives two hours just to get to a garden centre she likes! And back again the same day! Granted looking after DS will be more tiring, but honestly, if she isn't capable of driving home after one night's stay she should be getting the train instead.

"My DP doesn't want to get involved really and I think he thinks I'm being mean for not saying yes definitely every four weeks."
Well, he's going to have to get involved, because his mother is upsetting his DP. He doesn't get to stand by the sidelines letting it happen. Discuss it with him. Ask what he thinks his mother would do/say if you did agree to her rigid schedule and something came up e.g. a wedding invite, summer holiday that clashed. Would she insist that said wedding/holiday would just have to be foregone, because it was 'her' time and she takes priority? He needs to see where you are coming from. And discuss his sister going to New Zealand, and his mother's anger ("say that she will "never forgive" her daughter for doing so") over that. And that you don't want to be his mother's whipping boy, expected to substitute for his sister now she's gone.

You "called her to talk about it, and said we were looking forward to seeing her but could we keep the arrangement flexible, and make plans when we see her next." IMO that should suffice. Yes some old people can be very inflexible and want everything carved in stone, but arranging the next visit on the current visit allows her to plan each visit four weeks ahead, that should be enough for her, whilst allowing it to be flexed to three/five weeks ahead to accommodate other social commitments you would like to accommodate. Her desire to "be sure to visit every four weeks" is NOT reasonable. You don't want to plan your life that rigidly, and that is reasonable. You don't have to.

I don't like being dictated to either OP, it puts my back up and makes me become very obstinate. In your shoes I'd be having to bite my tongue very hard not to insinuate that she shouldn't push me too hard or I'd be emigrating to New Zealand like her daughter felt she had to she'd not be welcome in MY HOME. She does seem to have forgotten that when she comes, she is your guest in your home (since her son doesn't want to get involved).

I think you and your DP need to find a compromise and then present that to the MIL.

How about committing to a one day visit every month, and you will agree the day a month in advance? That way you have some predictability but also flexibility if you have plans on a particular weekend.

Maybe compromise on overnight/long weekend visits every 3 months?

Or alternate, in September she will come to you for a day, in October you will go to her for a day?