To wish that nurses would think twice about calling older people 'sweetheart' and 'darling'

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

I know, I know, they are trying to be nice, they are good people, if all I have to worry about is the terms of endearment the HCPs use, I have a lucky life, etc.

But I can't help feeling that many older people (and younger, too, actually, because they do it to them too) inwardly flinch at being called sweetheart and darls, with lots of 'bless yous' in between. Which is what nurses in particular seem to do.

My grandad's a grown up man with all his faculties; he's not quite with it at the moment after surgery, and the indignity of that position seems to me to made worse when, towards the end of your life, you're suddenly addressed like a baby. 'Alright darls, ooh you don't like that do you, bless you' etc - I know they're trying to be kind, and they are kind, but couldn't they just think twice about how they address people older than them, and consider that it might be a tad patronizing?

Or is that unreasonable of me?

Mind you wouldn't want him to use patronising endearment whilst my mouth was full so unable to retaliate!!

piglet isn't it kind and caring to try to make sure you address people in a way with which they feel comfortable?

I do care how he feels about his experience in hospital and, sorry I didn't express concen for your grandad, apologies.

I am not disregarding anyone's view and am very interested to hear points of view on the matter. This thread has caused me pause for thought and will affect my practice, so surely something positive has been achieved.

You do pay, not at the desk but through taxes.

I didnt mean that to sound like a role call, or to say everyone should have said it, but I can see that it sounded that way - sorry

Pause for thought is really exactly what I was hoping for, so thank you.

I definitely prefer it when professionals call me Ms Smutty or, at a push, Garlic. However - and it's a very big "however" - I lard my conversation with endearments. To an extent, this is a hangover from working in very luvvie industries. I like a room full of Darlings More importantly, my therapy taught me to use a wider range of endearments with more feeling: exactly the same principle that someone outlined at the beginning of the thread; it engenders sympathetic feeling in the speaker. I imagine this would be a useful effect for those who have to care, all the time, very quickly, at work. So YABNU but neither are they!

Thanks for taking it on board with such good grace sagfold. The next bit is not for you

I know I'm going on and on and on about it, but someone else has said "I would ask people how they would like to be addressed" - and this very likely won't work in the way that people would like to think. It seems as though you are giving people a choice and giving them every consideration - but it would be very difficult for someone who prefers being addressed as Mr or Mrs etc to say so in these circumstances. Socially, for many people, that would be unacceptably rude. The only answer they could reasonably give, remaining polite, would be "oh I really don't mind what you call me". So then, because you think a first name is more friendly, you'd use that and they would hate it! To say "I would prefer to be addressed as Mr or Mrs" sounds dreadfully pompous - so people won't say it. But for many, many older people (honestly, loads of my parents contemporaries have said this) they would much prefer to be addressed that way.

Those who are saying that they are being criticised for being kind and caring are really missing the point that some people don't find being addressed by a first name or an endearment kind and caring at all. They find it demeaning and belittling. However much you think they are daft for thinking like this - they do...

I'm not making it up.

A good nurse/doctor will understand the potential vulnerability of patients and understand the position they are in and that it can be very easy to abuse that position. Its a very fine line and involving the patient in decisions, seeking permission and verbal consent are very important.
Sometimes I encounter someone who wants you to do what you think is best and they are so ill, exhausted and in pain that they don't want to discuss things, just for you to get on with it. They trust you and that is a very precious thing. I would be beside myself if I did something to break that trust.

It winds me up no end that HCP don't introduce themselves to patient and I have been known to jump in and do it for them!

You're right, shitsinger' the only reply most of us would feel able to make there would be 'oh I don't mind, whatever you like', but that doesn't make it so. Even those who would be comfortable replying would be unlikely to say 'please could you call me Darl' though, would they?

Whenever there is a ms/mrs/miss thread, someone always asks, what about my elderly mother/grandmother, who would hate and be offended to be called Ms, as she's a Mrs.

even I, a very vociferous proponent of Ms for adult women, wouldn't call an elderly lady Ms if she'd ticked the 'mrs' box, because I don't think it's appropriate for me to decide that in those circumstances, no matter how kind or caring I think I am being. So think how much worse it must be for same to be called Sweetheart.

it would be very difficult for someone who prefers being addressed as Mr or Mrs etc to say so in these circumstances. Socially, for many people, that would be unacceptably rude.

Good point well made, VCR. "You may call me Mrs Jones" is actually a snub. That said, most older people are capable of moving with the times. My parents (mid-80s) are perfectly aware that first names & endearments are common currency these days.

sagfold I hope you nurse me and mine .
This thread is very enlightening hopefully for all . It comes down to basically asking preferred title /name [and it is in all care plans ]and using them of course. A continual usage of pet or sweetheart is demeaning.
But I still stand with how if it is used almost subconsciously with a very distressed person it does no harm . I dont feel guilty for it at all . It was instinctive behaviour and of course I used the title of the patient as well .
Different strokes for different folks . Good nurses know and read boundaries .

How do mners feel about a tap on the arm for reassurance or a hug say?
I ask because my DHs specialist nurse read him immediately . Hugely professional lady. We were in huge shock and upset after a five minute appointment with medic to be given bad news. At the end of her consultation she rubbed my husbands arm and said "we will look after you dont fret" . And they do .....and she gives my Dh a hug every time we see her . He has had such comfort from this personal kind of informal care.
So yes many hate familiarity but others crave it I guess.

*You may call me Mrs Jones" is actually a snub ... except thats the whole point ,the nurse wont take it personally because its a way of allowing the patient to have a choice, to not abuse your position as a HCP and to allow the patient to set the boundary.

I agree garlicsmutty. Many/most older people are well able to move with the times and understand the way that fashions change, but at such a vulnerable time, wouldn't it be lovely if someone could help them to feel more comfortable by addressing them in a way that they would prefer?

It's so much easier to move from formality to informality. It's terribly difficult to go the other way without everyone feeling terribly uncomfortable. No-one with good manners is going to say "please don't call me by my first name". It would even be hard to say "please don't call me sweetheart" because you would know full well that the intention behind it was full of kindness and care.

I honestly am going to shut up now .

Oh, ok, no I'm not . The nurse wouldn't take it as a snub, but the patient would never wish to deliver the snub in the first place shitsinger so you wouldn't be giving them the choice you think you are giving them. If you start off being formal then you are giving them the (polite, society norm) choice of inviting you to be more informal.

That is the normal, polite, accepted way of working out what someone wishes to be called.

When I trained in 1982 we were insrructed to call the patron by the name they requested.

Never once did anyone ask to be Mr or Mrs.

When you are in pain or scared I think it's quite acceptable to hold a hand and say 'its ok dear/darling.'

My dm was in hospital 2 months ago and without exception she was dear/ love/ sweetheart. Made her feel cared for and special.

It is not a normal social situation at all and Nurses and Doctors are taught "positive regard". It wouldnt occur to them to be uncomfortable with the patients choice of name.

Whereas my mother would absolutely hate to be called dear/love/sweetheart; she would feel patronised and demeaned.

But if a patient is used to formality then it cant be a snub - its what they consider as polite surely?

They way I see it (and would like to be treated, personally) is:
At first meeting (and I don't care if you are the highest consultant in the world or a cleaner on your first day, aged 16 or 116), please refer to me as Miss Busty. At some point (depending on manner of speech and content of conversation) I will say, oh, please call me Lusty, but not Lustiforious, I only get called that when I'm in trouble!! From then on, YOU can call me Lusty. When you introduce your colleague/med student, if you introduce them as Mr/Mrs/Dr X, I shall be Miss Busty. Introduce them as Fred, you may call me Lusty.
Sweetheart/love/duck please only use them if I know you are talking to ME. If we are alone in the same room, or you have prefaced it with my name, or with something related to me (pain meds, referral info etc), or we have been in close contact for some time (a week or so on a ward etc), as examples.
Fussy, moi? Never!!

No, I think a lot of people who would really prefer to be called Mrs Jones or Mr Smith would feel a bit awkward asking someone to do so, especially in that particular situation.

Culture plays a part though. My father is not English, and despite years here just not quite as in tune with the 'pet, dear, sweetheart' tradition as an English-born person. He is also from a culture where older people are treated with more deference than here.

You think you don't mind about these things and that you are fully assimilated, then you get ill and have to go to hospital and it turns out, you aren't as blase as you thought you were.

I will say though, that goodwill always comes across. I wouldn't get ratty with a caring, well-meaning nurse who was inadvertently getting this wrong, and nor would he, not least as we recognise the enormous work load all NHS staff are struggling with.

Oh, and if you're a snotty po faced surgeon (who I understand has a lot on his mind, please don't flame me!) who insists on talking to my left ear, and huffing when I ask you to explain something, I shall remain Miss Busty.
If you are the nurse who rocks up at my bedside with a fresh jug of water, my meds and a big smile, you can probably call me whatever the hell you want.

Head hits desk...

No, it's not socially acceptable to ask to be Mr or Mrs - that's the point.

Very polite people know that it is rude to ask to be addressed by their title. Those who understand this fact know that it is polite to start off addressing someone by their title - whether this is requested or not, because then the polite person is not put in an awkward position when they are feeling vulnerable.

Then, the person addressed by the title can say "please call me..." if/when they would like it to be more informal.

I know that the kind endearments that some nurses use when patients are distressed or in pain are welcomed by many - quite possibly including those who would normally prefer formality. But unless you have started of being formal - those who prefer it can never retrieve it.

It often won't work asking the patient how they would like to be addressed because it's rude to request a title. One would hope that the title is automatic on a first encounter, because that's the polite and respectful way to address someone you don't know - for many older people.

If you are someone that doesn't care, or prefers a first name - then you can say so.

applauds verlaine