To not want to meet friends tomorrow for picnic as they'll be drinking?

[ChangeyMcChangeName]

My friends (a couple) have recently gotten over a bad health scare...it was her...the female half. She had a terrible illness which came on suddenly and almost killed her.

She's been out of hospital for two weeks. Her DH suggested my DH and our DC go to see them tomorrow as theres a very nice beauty spot near their flat....we could have a picnic with the DC he said. I agreed...our DC are 5 and 8 and theres are 3 and 1.

Then I got a txt saying "We're going to be having a couple of bottles of wine...so bring a beer or whatever if you want..."

AIBU to get a bit judgey? She's still recovering...I mean she was in a MESS....she was at deaths door. We're going to meet them on the train as we have no car atm...so drinking isn't really a good idea...and we;ll all have the DC with us.

Am I a big misery guts? It's just put me off a bit. We're not drinkers really so I said no we wouldn't be drinking.

She might be ready to go out and have a few drinks if she's had such a scare. As long as she's not steaming while looking after the kids too then what's the problem??

If you're going on the train as you don't have a car then surely that's the best time for you to have a couple of drinks???

Don't judge your friend - if you want a drink, do. If you don't then just don't. Let your friend do the same.

I don't drink at all - through choice and even I can see you're BU. she's a grown up, she can decide for herself if she wants a drink without other people judging her for it.

YANBU - drinking a bottle of wine when looking after a 1 & 3 year old, never mind the health condition is wrong IMO. But I am a massive killjoy when it comes to drinking around children - so am in the minority view probably

Changey I agree with you, budge up on the judgey bench.

I am no longer surprised at how defensive people become when anyone's drinking is questioned. If its not a big deal to have it, then it's not a big deal not to, surely?

I don't think a picnic with children is the place for drinking, and sadly I have personal experience of why not.

Your friend has a problem if she needs to be drinking 'a couple' of bottles of wine post-illness on a picnic with children.

YANBU. You sound like a concerned friend, not a killjoy.
My liver and kidney function became impaired in labour with DS1. After a few weeks tests said it was "borderline but no action required". At my 8wk checkup, I requested a re-test as I wanted to be sure I wasn't harming my body before my first post-pregnancy drink. It had to be a small amount because of BFing a young baby frequently.

Why assume that a sober person is a party pooper? It's a picnic, not a hen night- not that drinking is compulsory on a hen night anyway.

Go, enjoy the sun and the company of your friends.

No-one has assumed that not to drink is to be a party pooper, just that some posters have said that, yes, the OP is BU to judge her friend's conduct, as asked in the OP.

Has the friend said she "needs" to drink a couple of bottles of wine? Surely the two bottles suggested is merely being sociable, and the idea that all bottles opened must be being drunk is an unreasonable inference.

I think any amount of alcohol after an episode of liver failure is madness. If you'd just had a brain haemorrhage would you spend an evening headbanging? Or even 10 minutes headbanging?

I think I would fell a bit like OP IF it meant she would be endangering her health again - she has two very young children depending on her.

I'm impressed with all the assumptions flying around. imagine you have put 2 and 2 together and come up with a complete diagnosis, future prognosis and sweeping "any amount of alcohol after an episode of liver failure is madness" judgement. Where's your medical degree from?

OP, it all depends on what the underlying diagnosis was. Multi organ failure can result from a variety of things. Liver function is often impaired when you are very ill but the liver can and does regenerate once the cause of the impairment (sepsis, low blood pressure, renal disease, gallstones etc) is treated.

Once your liver function and clotting tests are back to normal, there's no reason why your liver won't continue to work at its usual tasks including metabolising alcohol. Yes, I'd probably suggest caution with alcohol intake but I'd suggest that to anyone whether recently ill or not.

(University of London, 1991)

Well I'd probably be a bit worried about her if she is planning on going on a binge - worried for her health & her kids.

I can see how it might feel like she was throwing back in your face the heartache and worry and everything you've been through in the last few weeks - seeing a friend almost die is a traumatic thing that people seen to be forgetting in the heat of the thread!

If you believe that she is effectively saying I am taking massive risks with my health and I do t give a monkeys what'ssit if I die leaving you all to grieve for me... Then yes I get your hurt.

However if it's just that this woman and her dh want to enjoy one or two glasses of wine on a beautiful day and feel happy to be alive... Then it's not nice to deny them that moment.

After almost dying, it's incredibly significant, and healing to the psyche to do something really lovely and life affirming. That's why you are getting flamed! It could be said that you want to take away that positive experience or self agency to enjoy her life, and she should be acting repentant or whatever instead.

What I've found is that people have really entrenched and opinionated views on how ill people should live their lives... And it's very upsetting to have that imposed on you by others. It's feels crass, unkind and displays a lack of empathy or humanity!

So... If the situation is, she's being medically irresponsible (emphasis on medical, not just an opinion from yourself), then no YANBU... But if it's that she is not acting according to a script you have in your head, then yes YABU.

Vix funnily enough I graduated from medical school the same year as you, different place though.

My guess was, as I made clear, a shot in the dark - but I was thinking what a young woman might get that could involve a stint on ITU and being advised not to drink or eat fatty food, and the first thing I thought of was cholecystitis. But it could be any number of other things obviously.

I still stand by my assertion that drinking alcohol so soon after being near death (as OP stated) due to liver failure is madness, and I wouldn't enjoy spending time watching it done.

I can't see a reference to liver failure. I can see advice to avoid fatty foods, alcohol and smoking (standard on any icu discharge) and multi organ failure. No specific reference to liver problems - multi organ failure doesn't have to involve the liver. I agree fatty food avoidance sounds gallbladder related though.

It depends on her age, her underlying comorbidities, what was actually wrong with her, what level of organ support she was on and for how long - far too many unknowns to go sweeping in with assumptions and judginess.

Vix I'm sure I saw a bit where someone asked if it was liver failure and OP said yes, among other things. And it's not judginess coming from OP, it's care, concern, worry, and sadness at the horrors they've all recently been through.

I was raised by an alcoholic. I don't drink and I don't like to be around drunk people.

However, I still think YABveryU. You are zoning in on the alcohol way above the fact that your dear friend has survived, and now has the chance to have a wonderful day in the sun, with her family and friends, and with (if she so chooses) a nice glass of wine, like (almost) everyone else. Can't you try to be happy for her?

You're not coming across well, here OP - there is an undercurrent of spite in a lot of your posts.

I can understand you are concerned for your friend after her illness but she is an adult and is entitled to make her own choices. No matter what you think of them.

You can choose not to drink just as much as she can choose to drink.

OP, what is your idea of "heavy" drinking?

Drinking after her health scare is her decision to make, and if you are prepared to forgo a nice time with friends in order to show your disapproval then I think that is sad and doesnt make you are very good friends. Good friends accept others choices, whether they agree with them or not.

How is telling someone they're overstepping the boundaries of their friendship being 'remarkably immature' (daisychain01) or defensive (imademarion)?

And at 'All this "her body her business" stuff really annoys me' WTF?? That's not caring for someone, it's trying to control them!

It is her body, do you often tell the people you know how you think they should be behaving?

Saying it's none of the OPs business and that she's over involving herself in a decision that has nothing to do with her, might end up with the friend telling her she can't be doing with people around her who think they've got some kind of parental authority over her.

And saying I think she shouldn't go to the picnic is my answer to the question the OP specifically asked in the title.

I don't hear spite at all I hear a person who was just scared rigid her friend was going to die. This is incredibly traumatic, and I'm sure you shed tears over her during this time.

It is then very hard, I have seen it myself, when the friend who has just survived a life-threatening illness, to do something which will endanger them all over again. I have been in this situation and it is hard not to think 'god, noooooo, don't do that' even if you keep it to yourself (as I did).

I don't think this is a rational well-thought out stance, you have been very upset by your friend's near death, from your understanding (which may or may not be correct) she shouldn't be drinking, and you panicked when you got the text.

Having said all that (and I think the people imputing you don't care for your friend are just incredibly wrong), you a) don't know she will definitely be drinking, she may be suggesting the bottles of wine for you all to share and may take soft drinks herself and b) even if she has a glass of wine, she will have made that decision having the knowledge of what the consultant said which you don't know and b) she is your friend and so go along and see her and celebrate her survival, even if you have to bite your tongue.

I find the attitude towards alcohol on MN really very bizarre. Alcohol is by far the biggest killer of the legal drugs, and middle-class alcoholism a very real problem, but any suggestion that you might want to umm remain sober around your tiny children (1 and 3 do need supervision) is met with disbelief and cries of judgementality. I think having one sober person per small children's outing is extremely important, but I have friends who get regularly as drunk as skunks all afternoon while caring for their children. I hate it. I also have a friend who was exceptionally put out when I failed to agree with her that it was her right to have two large glasses of wine every day when pregnant (so, most of a bottle then) and sure enough, a couple of years in, she was struggling with an alcohol problem. I would have thought not drinking a bottle a day when pregnant, or trying to have one person sober around tiny children were really basic safety steps, I am amazed at the defensiveness here over the 'right to drink' around tiny children.

I just think that in a civilised society where people experience friendship and empathy, we are allowed to care what our loved ones do and how they live. We shouldn't nag or lecture them, but of course we can have opinions. Would you remove the car keys of a friend about to drive home when very drunk Agent? Guess not, as it's their business what they do. I think that's sad.

"She's been out of hospital for two weeks."
"she was told to avoid alcohol, fatty foods and smoking."

"Then I got a txt saying "We're going to be having a couple of bottles of wine...so bring a beer or whatever if you want..."

AIBU to get a bit judgey?"

Given that you've said liver failure was involved; I don't know that how I'd feel would be called judgey, but I sure as hell would have picked up the phone and asked why she was putting her health on the line so casually.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if that text was almost an unconscious invitation to do so. In a 'well, ChangeyMcChangeName didn't say anything when I mentioned it so it must be OK' way.

It's her choice to drink.

You can always say ' I told you so' when and if the day comes, until then let her do what she chooses to do.

Arf at 'civilised society'

There are far more uncivilised things to keep you busy than an adult having a glass of wine in the sunshine after nearly dying.

Why is everyone being so extreme?

People seem to be either condemning the friend for wanting to drink to a state of drinkeness or saying it is her right to get trashed.

Surely it is anyone's prerogative to have a glass of wine at a picnic without being accused of an inability to look after the children?

(Obv have not answered the question of whether she should be drinking at all due to health reasons)

In fact, I can't think of anything more civilised tbh.