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AIBU?

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Original poster

To say why not use IVF to choose the sex of a baby?

422 replies

Poppycattlepetal · 03/07/2013 06:26

If people could save up for the IVF required, just don't see who else's business is it if they have a boy or a girl baby, really?

It seems U that we are not legally allowed to try for this in Britain. Clearly, we'd not all choose boys. See this mother of five sons in the Indy today: www.independent.co.uk/news/science/ban-on-sex-selection-of-ivf-embryos-is-not-justified-says-ethicist-8683940.html

It is allowed in US to do this, and you don't hear of a population imbalance over there. Just what seems like an incannily high proportion of celebrities who have twins, one of each!

I do get the issues about things being very different in other countries where there can be a cultural pressure to have sons of course. And i'm only talking about methods used before pregnancy begins. And obviously this would have to be genuinely freely chosen. Just feel that as the majority in the UK doesn't share any particular preference, why not let the people who do really mind, have the choice?

OP posts:
ChocolateBiscuitCake · 03/07/2013 22:06

Great post MrButtercat :)

exoticfruits · 03/07/2013 22:16

I really don't think that people ought to have children if they view them as commodities or possessions. They are a gift that you have to nurture for a very short time. Most of the problems that people have with their parents is that they try to mould them to the child they want- rather than find out what they have and love and support that child.
Of course you bring them up in a certain way but you have to bear in mind that you may be an atheist and they may become a vicar, you may eat meat, they may become vegetarian, you may want someone to go to football with you, they might loathe football, you may set your mind on an academic child destined for Oxford but they may want to be a landscape gardener etc.
Money can't buy everything-however much money you have you should have the child that nature sends you and not interfere - if gender is vitally important then lots of older children need adoptive parents.
I think it wonderful that you don't get to choose- and despite OP will not be allowed to.

exoticfruits · 03/07/2013 22:21

Where would it stop? When you get your DD and she refuses to wear pretty dresses, wouldn't be seen dead shopping with her mother, has learning difficulties, emigrates to Australia etc etc would you feel cheated?

ChocolateBiscuitCake · 03/07/2013 22:24

So if you have IVF - are these children considered commodities or possessions?

Of course not.

MrButtercat · 03/07/2013 22:27

You should have the child that nature sends you- but nature wasn't sending me any so I guess my boys shouldn't have been born.Hmm

ChocolateBiscuitCake · 03/07/2013 22:28

Such an extreme view Exotic - I wouldn't love any of my children less for any of their life decisions (other than murder!) because they were my child - you love your child. End of.

If my sons are gay, hate sport, love pink (what other ridiculous steryotypes can we take??!!) - I will love them. Deeply. They are my children.

Ifcatshadthumbs · 03/07/2013 22:30

"Most couples would want both if they could choose" I don't agree with that at all I certainly didn't.
I don't feel comfortable with egg or sperm donation either so yes am definitely Hmm about gender selection.

5madthings · 03/07/2013 22:31

But why do you want a specific gender? What is this balance that you are after, what difference does it make?!

Seriously I dotn get it, you get what you get.

I have no problem with ivf etc for infertility or medical reasons etc, I donated my own eggs to help a couple have children. But I don't understand the need for a specific gender.

MrButtercat · 03/07/2013 22:34

I don't know anybody who wanted a specific gender.Once you have a child you often want to experience the other sex- big deal.

OrganixAddict · 03/07/2013 22:37

I have 3 dc all of the same gender, I don't feel my family is lacking or unbalanced and agree that gender selection via IVF should not be allowed.

I was very surprised though when a friend who was approved for adoption had a child placed with her very quickly because she wanted a boy (and most adapters want girls apparently). Struck me as odd you can choose gender when you are adopting but not conceiving.

5madthings · 03/07/2013 22:44

Really you want to experience the other gender? What makes you think they are so different. Time they are not.

My first four were all boys, we were happy with four, we planned four and our family was complete. We got a 'bonus' baby who is a girl and so far its really no different, more choice in clothes but she is just a rough and tumble toddler, cute, inquisitive and full of life as her brothers were at her age. We fully expected a fifth boy and had a name picked out. It was a surprise to get a girl tbh. But hasn't changed our family, nor do I feel that we are more 'balanced'.

The constant comments that now our family is complete, or how pleased we must be to 'finally' have a girl are really rather wearing and insulting to my four boys who are fabulous.

Children are individuals regardless of gender, my boys are like chalk and cheese, all very different to each other with their own likes and dislikes, ditto dd.

5madthings · 03/07/2013 22:46

And of its not a big deal, why are you so keen to be able to choose, its either important enough that you would go through ivf to get a specific sex or its not. To say its not a big deal and then still be prepared to pay and go through ivf seems at odds.

exoticfruits · 03/07/2013 23:02

Why do you think I am against IVF? It is a wonderful thing for those who can't conceive naturally. It is not to buy the 'gender you want'. I can't see anything extreme about my views. Money can't buy everything- you can't order a child like a new car!

5madthings · 03/07/2013 23:06

I do think that if you have a child or more than one of a particular gender and you will go to these lengths to get the 'other' gender you are sending the message to your existing children that they are not good enough/or they are the wrong gender.

In the case of the woman in the article how will her sons feel of they read that when older?

PeriodMath · 03/07/2013 23:12

I don't think it's wrong per se, just really weird.

Children are about so much more than their gender. What's between their legs has no bearing whatsoever on the person they will become or the relationship you will have with them.

SingingSilver · 04/07/2013 00:28

"Michelle Priestley says ?Had it [IVF gender selection] been made available I probably wouldn?t have had five children. I would have stopped.? The fact that she's happy to put that on public record where her sons can read it in future to say, effectively "We didn't want you, we wanted a girl" (or even "We didn't want you at all, we wanted to have had a girl instead of one of your older brothers") to her younger children shows that she's not being entirely rational or thinking of the child's best interests in all of this."

I think people can be too precious about this kind of thing. My mother is very candid about the fact that I was a mistake, and so what? I know she loves me. Realistically most of us are mistakes, your Mum and Dad fancied a shag, then they got some shocking news a few weeks later Grin

SingingSilver · 04/07/2013 00:28

In the Uk I don't think there could be a gender imbalance, if anything it could get slightly more balanced, as the ideal is one of each.

5madthings · 04/07/2013 00:31

Why is the ideal one of each? According to who?

elQuintoConyo · 04/07/2013 00:41

I agree with pp, it starts with choosing the sex but where does it end: eye colour, height, hair colour...?

Just like what that naice Mr Hitler was experimenting with.

lisianthus · 04/07/2013 03:13

YABU. People who want a particular sex are basing this on what they think a child of a particular sex "should" be like. That leads to situations like sassh's, above.

MyBaby1day · 04/07/2013 03:53

I don't see why not really, have never fully made my mind up about whether it's right or not but I am a BIG believer in my dreams and in making my dreams come true (this attitude has got me throught some -very- difficult times) and who am I to say someone shouldn't get their dream Son/Daughter. I do have a slight worry being conceived this way may cause medical problems somewhere down the line but maybe that's just my ignorance. I remember the lady in the programme '8 boys and wanting a girl', her boys were GORGEOUS!. I hope they aren't hurt by it when they get older and discover it yes. As for the worry about eye/hair colour/build preferences, then no, you would have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. But gender I don't see why not. I have always dreamed of one boy but as I want to adopt think it will be less of a problem for me (as pointed out by OrganixAddict). But it will be a very wanted baby and if people do it they should always be aware of they will get the boy they dream of but they won't be guaranteed anything else. Your dreams are important.

MyBaby1day · 04/07/2013 03:54

very

exoticfruits · 04/07/2013 07:39

I do think it weird that people have an idea and think that everyone must think the same.
'One of each is the ideal' is one such- how on earth can you get to this? It wouldn't be ideal for lots of people.
'It is like the every woman must want a DD' - how on earth can you make this assumption?
Families need to be balanced is a new one on me- if you choose 3 children you don't have a hope on that one!
I know someone who wanted 2children- they got triplets the second time.
I know someone who did want to 'balance' their 3children with a 4th and they got triplets and doubled their family. ( triplets do occur naturally and you can get that sort if shock!)
I believe that if you go on to ordering a baby to suit what you believe to be your picture of motherhood and family life it wouldn't be long before people wanted more and it went on to be right 'sort' of girl/boy. e.g my dream is of a musical child, a sporty child, a child with blue eyes etc etc

EmmelineGoulden · 04/07/2013 09:21

I don't see the problem with allowing "designer" babies, so long as it doesn't lead to a population imbalance (so I think limits should be bought in where it leads to imbalance or actual harm). If there are problems with certain characteristics being favoured society needs to deal with that prejudice first - it's not as though we didn't have horrendous sexism when you couldn't choose the sex.

I think ssash's point about a child "disappointing" parents by not fitting in with the parent's idea of what that child should be like is real, but that problem exists anyway, whether a child has been "designed" or not.

I wouldn't do it though. I'm also not so into this idea that "one of each" is the ideal. I assumed that before I had children, but my two are the same sex and I'm really pleased about it (not sure why though!).

ICBINEG · 04/07/2013 09:29

Yes the being disappointed that a child doesn't fit the gender stereotype is a real current problem.

The solution is EDUCATING people out of such depressing ignorance.

Not giving them the ability to pander to it.

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