To get annoyed when other women say "I'm not a feminist"

[Nickabilla]

As if it's a dirty word and a shameful thing to be? I hear it every now and then and always question it. Someone said it today and I'm annoyed again.

Do some women not realise that women didn't used to be allowed to go to university, get divorced, own property or vote?

Rant over.

.. ( stupid phone)

Male in the UK today.

"I think the lack of paternity leave is a much more pressing issue than the pay gap between men and women."

The lack of paternity in some ways can be blamed for the paygap. No paternity means that a man will statistically take less time off than a woman if the two start a family. To an employer you could argue the man is therefore worth more.

Am I missing something here about paternity leave? I thought the rules had recently changed to allow fathers to take additional paternity leave so that the total leave could be split between both parents?

I'm not seeing it in practice at my workplace Inertia, a young man has started a family and he get's two weeks off paid. I'm in Scotland.

This is what I think of when someone says they're "not a feminist":

areyouafeminist.com/

Well that's gender equality for ya honeytea. You may thank feminists for that

Lots of my friends are starting families at the moment and not one of the UK bassed dads are taking anything more than the 2 weeks paternity leave. I feel so sorry for them, a bond with your child is surely the most important thing in life, I think we should be fighting for better rights for fathers rather than concentrating on pay scales.

I think women say they're not feminists primarily because they don't want anyone thinking they've caught the gay. Secondly, because they don't want men thinking they're dreary rad 80s hasbeens.

In other words, they don't want to be me

Better paternity leave is a feminist goal; current workplace inequalities around parenthood are disproportionately experienced by women. To think that mat leave is about women's rights and paternity leave is about men's rights is to misunderstand feminism, which has a problem with PATRIARCHY and not with MEN.

Which feminists are doing honeytea. Most think bonding with baby, child rearing, parenting is so important and should be shared between both parents. the rough and the smooth for both parents.

Reasons to marry a feminist man: "hey, you're as entitled to an orgasm as I am..."

This is a genuine question but I always wonder when I read that women only have feminists to thank for XYZ.

At any given time in history we are only able to deal with the cards we have been given. Thus we are not responsible for the inequalities before us but only for the here and now.

So when feminists fight toward something e.g. the vote, and the government agreed that it was the right thing to do, who should be thanked? The feminists for asking or the government for accepting it was the right thing to do? It seems to me that a lot of thanks goes to feminists but very little for those men in power that were strong enough to go against years of oppressing women to change things for the better.

The same goes for all other laws that have been introduced or attitudes that have changed over the years. Change doesn't happen in a vacuum. Change happens when people want to change and if men didn't generally want to move toward equality then it simply would not happen.

Honeytea, I really do believe your attitude would change of you had a daughter. I'm sure you'll find that hard to believe, but it would.

But if the legislation is in place to allow men to use some of the leave allowance, then surely it becomes the choice of individual families how the leave is split, rather than it being a case of men having insufficient rights? I agree with Sparklyboots and Sinistersal's posts above- both parents should have the opportunity to play a significant parenting role. How is it the fault of feminism when men have the legally enforceable right to paternity leave but choose not to take it?

I don't have figures to hand, but I'd be willing to bet that the reason that the majority of families are not using their paternity leave is that the father is better paid, and it makes more financial sense for the mother to take a 'pay cut' in terms of going on to SMP. Which brings us back to the question of equal pay.

Lols. Thanking someone for stopping oppressing you. No wonder the fems are so unpopular, they haven't been writing enough thank you notes.

Technotropic I think you might have an over-generous perception of the reasons change occurs - particularly in systems of oppression. It's not always because those wielding power suddenly wake up and think 'we've been so mistaken all these years!'; more often than not it's a minor concession in order to stave off greater demands and/or in order to profit politically or financially.

Although in fairness to Lloyd George he was a long-standing supporter of female suffrage as well as an incorrigible shaggier despite the suffragettes bombing his house before the war.

Shagger, not shaggier! But he did have a fine head of hair, the Welsh Wizard.

Techno there is a similar train of thought about people who don't or wont join the union in their workplace. Some think they shouldn't benefit from the pay rises and the better working conditions that the paying union members have fought for.
But some people, very low paid workers for example really genuinely cant afford the seven or eight pounds a month for the subs. Some just believe in their employment rights which they hold with or without union membership and genuinely think why should l join a special club and pay for the priviledge to get treated how employment law already says l am entitled to be treated anyway.

Sparkly

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

If a man grows up in a society that he had no influence over and gets in a senior enough position to change society then what oppression are you talking about? Is he responsible for what happened prior to getting into office?

Do you think the Jews are deluded for holding Oscar Schindler in such high regard?

is it because it doesn't need saying such as of course you're not a racist?

Or what do you see as more important? Rights for 50% of people is pretty important, in my book! Nowhere in recorded history have we had real equality.

Skyler

Maybe I'm being over generous, maybe not. Sadly none of us know exactly what has motivated change through history. However, the steady shift in the uk, toward equality of sorts, would suggest that people are morally capable of making their own minds up and making the necessary changes. If people generally didn't think something was a good idea then they wouldn't do it. I think most people understand that equality is a good idea.

Hasn't it been proven that women who make it to the top of industry have a large number of male personality traits and raised testosterone levels compared with the normal female population

Nope - that's the patriarchy talking. That's the kind of thing that makes women believe they are not good enough to even apply for certain jobs let alone reach the top.

In fact I don't think there are 'male personality traits', we just assign certain traits to men.

Things like competition is thought of as being male, but did you see the Olympics?

What about competitive parenting?

On the thread about things people don't do there is mention of donkey stoning the front step, that again was competitive.

We are constantly having male superiority thrown at us. Men's football is on TV, women's isn't.

Wimbledon this year is all about Murry, when Robson is doing just as well and is in the same stage of the competition. Even when the BBC does report this, it puts Murray first.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/23118013

In fact have a look at the BBCSport site

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/

count the number of women compared to the number of men. We have to pay the same licence fee but we don't get to see women's sport.

SinisterSal

You mentioned the WI / housework and that you like that. How often do you see anything about that on the BBC, that you pay for?

Things that are seen as traditionally women's roles such as baking are only ever shown in a male context.

If the BBC started a 'How to make Jam with the WI' show tomorrow, I guarantee that there will be a male presenter.

Equality for me is white able bodied male should not be the default.