To get annoyed when other women say "I'm not a feminist"

[Nickabilla]

As if it's a dirty word and a shameful thing to be? I hear it every now and then and always question it. Someone said it today and I'm annoyed again.

Do some women not realise that women didn't used to be allowed to go to university, get divorced, own property or vote?

Rant over.

'I think she is quite dangerous.'

Ok, that's interesting. Obviously I don't know her, aside from her blog. I don't really see anything dangerous in her writings. Be interesting to hear your views.

And YY to GirlWritesWhat. She says it so well.

She is dangerous because she sees the world through her lense - that anti male bias encourages the family courts to break up families and alienate children.

She appears to apply that belief to every situation in front of her, not stopping to ask - is this man telling me the truth? The whole truth?

Do you remember a newspaper headline from some years ago when Fathers for Justice were first big news? 'jailed for sending text!' - decent lovely bloke jailed for six weeks for simply sending a text to his children, awful family courts etc etc.

What wasn't reported was that the text was a threat to kill. And I think he had previous criminal conviction.

The only thing stopping that man from seeing his children was his vicious and thuggish behaviour. But I think Karen Woodhall wouldn't have bothered to unpick that, as it doesn't fit her narrative.

Ah, just read your previous post Spero. Food for thought.

And she is dangerous because these men approach her directly for advice and she immediately assumes they are victims of oppressive court system, thus bolstering their false belief that they are not responsible for their abuse.

There must be situations like this on both sides. I think it must be a minefield to work in, if you try to take an unbiased view. Generally though, it does appear that fathers are generally demonised in court, and primary care is almost always awarded to the mothers.

We all see what we want to see.

If you have built a career and expertise in identifying the evils of the Pariarchy or conversely the evils of the anti male court system, there is a real risk you will take all situations you find as proof of your own particular theory.

I would just like to get to the truth and find solutions if we ever can. Philip Larkin was quite right to warn that man hands on misery to man, it deepens like a coastal shelf (get out as quickly as of can and don't have any kids yourself).

This is not just about the tragedy of a wasted life for an individuals, but for everyone around them, that they hurt too.

'And she is dangerous because these men approach her directly for advice and she immediately assumes they are victims of oppressive court system'

Doesn't evidence suggest that this is often the case though? There are shedloads of statements from fathers (and of course the young girls testimony upthread), they can't ALL be lying.

Primary care is almost always awarded to mothers because prior to split they almost always were the primary carers.

As so many have said before, if men want more hands on care ordered by the court post split, can they please get off their arses and undertake more care pre split.

'I would just like to get to the truth and find solutions if we ever can.'

Totally agree.

'Philip Larkin was quite right to warn that man hands on misery to man, it deepens like a coastal shelf (get out as quickly as of can and don't have any kids yourself).'

Again, I agree (good old Phil). I've already reproduced though

I don't think they are 'lying' in so much as they now believe their narrative and have airbrushed out of recollection their own abusive behaviour.

Of course some women behave appallingly and try to demonise decent men.

I would say it is a pretty even split of bad behaviour. I certainly reject any assertion that family court is hot bed of anti male bias - I appreciate I would say that wouldn't I, but look at cases that go to European Court, they don't succeed there either. So is the entire European court in on the act?

Or isn't it more likely a lot of these men exaggerate or have a skewed perspective? Not hating them for it, they are in great pain. But we have to be careful to explore people's histories. They are not always reliable.

'As so many have said before, if men want more hands on care ordered by the court post split, can they please get off their arses and undertake more care pre split.'

I talked about this upthread too. For a lot of families, one person may well out earn the other, such as in my case.

My DH cannot go part-time. In his line of work, it isn't an option, his job is not part-time. He earns a great deal more than I do. So how is that going to work for us? It isn't that simple unfortunately.

Just wanted to say that I am an independent woman but would NEVER call myself a feminist - I went to hear a very famous feminist speak a coupke of years ago and it was crap - I couldn't relate to what she said, much of it was man bashing. I believe in equality but not the attitude that women are superior in some way.

'Why should these artificial standards exist?'

Why are they artificial? How do you know?

People will always have privilege in varying degrees. It cannot be evened out, societies have tried this, and failed. There will always be richer/poorer. Which is by far the greatest inequality there is.

I work in education and it is a sad fact that my pupils (bright, 13+, 80% male) see Men as automatic authority and women as less important.

When (as part of PSHRE) I asked a group of male students about this, they told me my hunch was true but couldn't get much further than 'physical intimidation' when asked why.

Now, I know that most male staff are not actually deliberately physically intimidating the boys. But it remains their perception. They cited a very senior member of staff (responsible for suspending etc... ) as less authoritative than a male NQT- when I pointed out the power imbalance and why that was a strange attitude I was met with a shrug and a 'yeh but..'

It is a fact that in my place at least Women have to work harder for the same results in discipline.

women would be afraid to set up a business in competition with men that's what I do.

yes it is hard to be taken seriously. by staff. by clients.

I am still better than the competition. but if there was no discrimination, I would be further ahead.

its certainly not the greatest evil in the world but its not a question of end FGM or greater equality for business women. I would argue they are both about seeing women as people.

and why the hell should I settle for having my technical knowledge doubted because I don't have a penis? they are not related ya know!

I dont see why they would have to work harder Buffy.

The same would do. Or even less.
A 2 women chimney sweep business, or 2 women drain cleaning business, or landscape gardening or whatever.
Other women would pay for that, and love it, and some women would probably choose it over men coming into their homes.
They may perceive them as cleaning up after themselves better. I dont know.

And it could be done part time. So I dont see why they would have to work harder. Far from it.

yams - that's you not seeing it....

Buffy it was Germaine Greer

No Faster.
What was wrong with my post.
What I wrote is true, is it not?