To get annoyed when other women say "I'm not a feminist"

[Nickabilla]

As if it's a dirty word and a shameful thing to be? I hear it every now and then and always question it. Someone said it today and I'm annoyed again.

Do some women not realise that women didn't used to be allowed to go to university, get divorced, own property or vote?

Rant over.

Perhaps I didnt word it very well.
I think that, biologically,men are born with more anger, or more potential to anger. And more aggressiveness, and more potential for aggressiveness. And more lack of self control, or choice to use self control, than their female counterparts.
And it is partly up to whoever parents them to teach them to self control on those issues.

Actually, you have forced me to think more deeply on this issue, as I thought about and wrote all that.

I dont think violence is remotely ok in rl situations, under any circumstances.

Oh yes, I so agree that men can do so much more about self controlling themselves.
I do think it is way harder for those that have been brought up in a vioilent home, and violent neighbourhood. They learn different and dangerous rules. Partly though, i would add, to keep themselves alive
But I would hope that even they, eventually realise the error of their behaviour.
Part of the gun control stuff in America is because even average Jo cititizens say that they need theor guns for self defence.

Most feminists portray women as victims, victims of men, victims of 'Patriarchy', oppressed. How the hell is society supposed to stop seeing women as vulnerable, when most feminists do such a successful job at convincing society that they are.

Nail, head .

I noticed that you quoted from GirlWritesWhat earlier in the discussion. IMHO her video on why she isn't a feminist is very well reasoned.

Anyway I've read a lot on here about good, honest, decent men who do not act and call out when they see sexist behaviour being acted out by misogynists. At a time when benevolent sexism is also criticised I wonder why any man should step in to criticise sexist acts when this is simply another form of benevolent sexism.

I am with Sigmund on the biology issue.
And that is the part where I personally am furthest away from feminists.

I had never thought before about whether men are able to be as self controlled as women. I just thought they were, I think.
But now I am wondering if biology plays a bigger part in that too,than I thought. Dont know.

Sorry, now wildly off topic but this has to be shared given PQ's new nomenclature.

Do you want some more insight into why I am so bigoted against academia? I went to a Buffy conference in Nashville in 2004 and they actually MADE BUFFY BORING.

Ever since then I have nursed a flame of hatred in my heart for academia and all it's spawn.

But I did get to go to Dollywood and Gracelands, so it wasn't entirely a bust.

I watched a repeat of the Channel 4 emergency services programme last night, which I had forgotten, but some very interesting interviews with two female police officers who said they started the job thinking women would be more 'gentle', but soon took the view that they would rather deal with a drunk man than a drunk woman given the violence and aggression displayed by the women.

There was an interesting paper on women driving in Buffy and how they were all depicted as uniformly hopeless which made me think. Even Buffy was depicted as ditz behind the wheel which just doesn't fit with all her slayer skills.

There was a whiff of misogyny about that.

Buffy nee PQ, I am pretending you are a particularly vivid scriptural hallucination, otherwise my brain might explode.

I can't face that much challenge to my prejudices in one week.

I am a definite, agree in biology, person.
I think we are born how I described men. I think that women are more biologically programmed to nest, than men for example.

I do think that society, particularly parents, and then friends and to a certain extent media then mpuld and shape to a certain extent. But never totally.

Where for instance, absolutely anywhere, are men and women totally alike?

We have been on this planet for thousands of years.
Why hasnt it happened that men and women are now the same?

Not sure I totally understand your 12.39 pm post actually. I think I have answered your question, but not sure.

From my work I would say the causes of violence are not necessarily male biology but lack of emotional development through lack of nurture as children. The adult response to stress or any bad feeling is then to lash out physically.

We notice it more and fear it more from men because they can do more damage as usually stronger, but I think women are just as capable of violence.

Slightly off topic, but one of my mantras with DS and his diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome is that it is a reason for many of his responses and ways of understanding the world, and how he processes the information he receives.
It's not an excuse.
So once he understands why he reacts in a particular way, or struggles with something, he uses it as a key and makes a choice. Sometimes that's not possible for him, in meltdown or being asked to do something that is impossible for him. So he uses the key afterwards, to work out if there could have been a more appropriate response, and to try and embed it for next time.
He challenges sexist behaviour and language from men when he sees it, and he sees it when it is illogical. However he also challenges sexist behaviour from women if it is illogical.

Does that make any kind of sense in the nature/nurture context?

I dont include drunks, in either sexes, in any of this.
From what little I have seen, drunks are out of control, whatever or regardless of their sex.

I went to a brilliant lecture by Steve Jones who started off by saying he had identified the gene for criminality, shared by 99% of all violent criminal offenders. We all gasped excitedly and then he said it was the Y chromosome.

I don't think it can be controversial to say that biology plays a part - men tend to be more aggressive by virtue of being men.

But most of us have the ability to operate beyond our basic biology and not be prisoners to it.

But ALL the female characters were shown to be incompetent behind the wheel...

Buffy I may have to accept you are real as I think we sound very similar. People often assume I am a man on this site and one poster explicitly linked this to my posting style. I am often accused of being 'opinionated' and 'argumentative' and I suspect my skill set would be described differently if I actually was a man.

I also feel no physical pain when leaving my child for long periods which makes me very unusual in my group of friends.

I think we are all on a spectrum. I think most women are 'softer' and 'more nurturing' than men and it can't all be down to social conditioning. But not all women. And no one should be denied opportunities because they don't fit with majority view of how 'their' sex should behave.

Thanks all for stimulating and remarkably polite discussion. I will have to go now as ironically I need to seek a non molestation order against a violent man - in over 10 years I have never been instructed by a man to seek such an order against a woman....

'I noticed that you quoted from GirlWritesWhat earlier in the discussion. IMHO her video on why she isn't a feminist is very well reasoned.'

I'm in agreement with her on many things, she always seems measured and thoughtful.

Cant comment on all the Buffy conversation. Dont think I have ever seen one episode.

I get your point, Buffy about you not wanting to nest,and not nurture.
I have been pondering this very issue for the last couple of weeks.
Whether, the women who are feminists are like you in that respect. And therefore they cant see why they cannot be on a level playing field with men.

I think some of the points about that have been discussed on this thread?
I do wonder what is the population of women in this country that think like that re nurturing, nesting, want to be a leader in your chosen field etc? About 10%?

Do you have children btw?
You dont have to answer that if you dont want to.

Eyes, I dont know enough about Aspergers to comment properly or very accurately.
I suppose what I would say that, ues, it is a reason for his behaviour.
But it only not becomes an excuse when he is taught [primarily by you, I guess], to change or overcome it.
If he didnt have that teaching, then he would have an ecuse which would be the reason.
[not sure if my last sentence makes sense].