To get annoyed when other women say "I'm not a feminist"

[Nickabilla]

As if it's a dirty word and a shameful thing to be? I hear it every now and then and always question it. Someone said it today and I'm annoyed again.

Do some women not realise that women didn't used to be allowed to go to university, get divorced, own property or vote?

Rant over.

!! [grins] to Prom, er BuffytheResponsibleFeminist

Are you responsible or reasonable, Buffy? Or both?

Sorry, this is trivial, but..

There used to be a TV programme (think it was an OU one) and the opening sequence is a man opening the door for a woman, as she goes past him he turns and letches after her bum.

And why do you think that's wrong? (Assuming no-one sees him look.)

I can see it's uncomfortable being admired by people you are not interested in, but it's unreasonable to think their obligation to make you comfortable should extend further than successfully concealing their admiration.

It's not actually wrong for random men to want to take all your clothes off and have sex with you in the office corridor, that's just a normal sex drive at work. Where culture/indoctrination comes into it is that we expect them to conceal that desire. (There's also a health and safety issue, other people trying to traverse the corridor might trip over you both.)

If your lecher were seen, even by a third party, I would agree that he had failed in his social duty.

That is the only reason he opened the door.

How do you know? One can be both polite and lecherous.

As far as I've noticed, most men and women behave identically when it comes to holding doors. If the person you are holding for is worthy of bum-gazing, that is a bonus, not the primary purpose.

'women are expected and conditioned to feel that childcare is their responsibility and duty as a woman'

I don't think women have quite transcended their natural instinct to look after and protect their children just yet (fortunately for the kids), as nature seems to have given women that role (thanks God/Goddess/Higher Being/Evolution/Pesky Hormones) although I'm sure scientists are working on it (via artificial wombs). Then we can all, man & woman work like drones, not just the men.

yep, it was "reasonable"!
Was just about to post that quietly!

For the government, it totally is about working like drones. Women working is absolutely what the government wants, more kids in childcare = extra tax revenue, more women working = extra tax revenue. Which is fair enough I suppose, the government needs funds to keep overloaded institutions working.

Throughout history, from the year whatever, females birth children & nourish children & nurture children. Admittedly, some women are pretty crap at it, but in the main, they get by. Humans are not a homogeneous mass, men and women are not the same, one man is not the same as another man, one woman is not the same as another woman. We are all individual, yet share traits relative to our sex.

Women are scuppered by the fact that they give birth and are biologically driven (in the main), to want to be with them. I see evidence for this everywhere. My dentist recently told me that she has no intention of coming back full time until both of her children are much older. Many professional women appear to do the same. It simply can't be denied, no matter how much you wish it to not be true.

It does appear sometimes that feminists simply wish to ban biology.

Most feminists portray women as victims, victims of men, victims of 'Patriarchy', oppressed. How the hell is society supposed to stop seeing women as vulnerable, when most feminists do such a successful job at convincing society that they are.

Quota's for example. Does that suggest a strong woman, or does it suggest someone weaker that needed a leg up to get a job?

'We just disagree about the extent to which this desire is biological versus socially conditioned'

I only know of one woman, personally, who has said to me 'I need to work. I love my kids, but I need to get away from them too'. All the other women I know (a fair few), stayed with their kids for as long as possible. My experience can't be unique. This is also my view, I want to be with my young children. This may change as they get older and need me less.

Society may condition us to think that because it's the women in society that want that.

To me quotas actually suggest a levelling of the playing field, however I'm not that keen on them either. I also don't know of any quota systems that exist in the uk - aren't they illegal? I know political parties manipulate their mp lists to include more women, but as there are still fewer women in parliament I don't think it seems to be having any real affect.

Again though we are looking at feminism through the prism of our own experience. Am I comfortable being called a victim? No, I have massive privilege and have overcome discrimination at work. Girls undergoing FGM, girls being shot for going to school, women being sold - yes, those women are victims and I am entirely comfortable using the word.

Personally, I think that the levels of violence of men, come down, more or less to parenting and/or guardianship.
Yes, a male's inherent nature plays a part too.
And yes, an area that a male grows up in is going to contribute to the problem sometimes too.

But going away from topic again.

quotas. I thought the Gov did have quotas about women MPs, or/and MPs in the cabinet.
But I suppose, thinking about it, that is actually illegal!