To get annoyed when other women say "I'm not a feminist"

[Nickabilla]

As if it's a dirty word and a shameful thing to be? I hear it every now and then and always question it. Someone said it today and I'm annoyed again.

Do some women not realise that women didn't used to be allowed to go to university, get divorced, own property or vote?

Rant over.

1. Relocation.

Men are willing to relocate for their jobs far more than women are imo. Again, underestimated by feminists. I know a woman, working full time, single as it happens, who repeatedly complains that she doesnt get promotions. Wont even get another job in the same sector in a differnt town, and if necessary, come back again to the original company at a higher position. imo, men are far more willing to relocate.

The world has become much more competitive jobs wise.
Companies want staff to be far more flexible about where they work. Including working abroad.
Three of my children do this, one male, two females.
Will they do it when they have children, who knows?

Women, on the whole want to nest, consider nice nearby schools, even if they are working full time. Nothing wrong with that.

Have a look at this or this

The Research Excellence Framework, which will be held in October 2013, assesses the research conducted in UK universities over the last 5 years, and has an explicit section for evaluating the impact of academic research beyond the university and beyond the reading public.

Every UK academic department is currently drawing up its REF submission, and presents 2 'case studies' of impactful research being conducted by its members of staff. Generally every UK academic is more and more mindful of the importance of building an 'impact' cv, along with wider dissemination of their research.

That's not to say that the impact agenda is uncontroversial, but it is with us for the last 5 years and for the foreseeable future.

Thanks for the links, I will take a look. I am at least prepared to examine my prejudices.

But I continue to have to read academic papers as part of my current job. I have post graduate qualifications yet I have to re read each paragraph several times to make any sense of it, so steeped does this work seem to be in jargon and convoluted sentence structure.

This is an enormous shame as some of the research is very important and I need to be able to grasp it quickly.

Yams - you are right. I think it all boils down to children and our reactions to them. I have very many female friends who talk of their pain at being away from their children. Only once have I ever heard a man speak in similar terms.

Jargon is probably an issue in some disciplines more than others. And a great many academics conflate convoluted language with sophistication of thought, undoubtedly.

But I don't know if academic journal articles are the place to go if you are trying to grasp research quickly; surely by their very nature journal articles and monographs are supposed to be nuanced, suggestive - even, dare I say it, complicated? Because the issues they are dealing with are complicated. I dunno. I wonder, depending on the area you are working in, if there might be executive summaries of the research available.

Anyway, that's rather off-topic; apologies for the derailment. I just got riled up, Spero, when you blithely stated that you despise all academics. I still think that's a bit of a ridiculous statement, to be honest...

Sorry. I accept tone does not travel well on the Internet but I would have thought it was fairly obvious I am not being serious in such blanket condemnations of an entire profession. I think Promqueen got it - unless she is now sobbing in a darkened room and/or planning my assassination.

I am sure there are many lovely and lucid academics, just as this thread has shown me there are Reasonable Feminists who don't want to automatically stomp on those they disagree with.

But I have to politely ask what is the POINT of research if it can only be understood and decoded by a privileged minority? If you cannot make your ideas understood by the educated, may I respectfully suggest that it is the ideas themselves that are lacking, not the intelligence of the reader.

Spero I think register changes depending on the intended audience. So articles in academic journals are intended to be read primarily by other academics (unsurprisingly, given how extortionate the costs! but the open access issue is whole other debate).

Therefore those articles have a higher register, and probably a higher proportion of jargon, and probably assume a degree of familiarity with the key debates around the subject matter than an article written by an academic in a popular journal/newspaper, and/or the type of executive summary I mentioned earlier (usually written for stakeholders, funders etc).

So, my executive summary is :horses for courses.

"conflate convoluted language with sophistication of thought"!

Acedemics do seem to swallow dictionaries!

I have told my son, rightly or wrongly, to have his work written in English that the man in the street can understand. [he is going to have to do that anyway, for what he is currently working on, as it is going to be read by people like that].

But I am no wondering, skyler, if that is the wrong advise?
would his work be deemed not so good then?
just thought I would ask while you are here.
[apologies to op, but she hasnt been on for a while, though I expect is still reading. Actually at 681 posts, we are all surprisingly rather still on topic!]

You are a good ambassador for feminism Promqueen. Pity your stance isn't more the norm on this board and elsewhere.

just a slight addition to yams relocation.

we have been considering moving houses.
right now we are walking distance for our childrens' schools (infant and secondary) and playgroup
DS1 takes school bus to high school but could cycle and it's only a 5 min drive away.
My issue is to stay in the area, being able to walk to school is very important for many reasons, schools are great and I do not want to up root kids for a bigger space.
I'm a SAHM btw.
DH understands my reasons and his commute to work is good at the moment, but if we did move out of the area his main concern would be travelling to work ( route and time)
also understandable.

so relocating to similar circumstances to what we have now would be easier for him - he'd be happy anywhere that takes no longer than say 40 mins on a moped.

but I don't know if it is feminist issue or not.

yams I think your son will probably take advice from a range of people on how best to disseminate his research - including his mum, but also his supervisor(s), peers, colleagues, and mentors.

But my previous post stands: I think being able to communicate your research in plain English to the man (or woman!) on the street is important if you are talking to the man/woman on the street or trying to reach them via newspaper articles, magazine articles, podcasts, workshops, etc. More high-falutin' language is probably appropriate for journal articles and scholarly monographs.

Fwiw I do think other groups suffer from the extremism of their members - I honestly don't think feminism is the only group to be held to account this way.

The actions of some animal rights activists, particularly attempts to car bomb people very much puts me off identifying with them.

I think most people are quite moderate as sensible and are prepared to engage if they are not dismissed immediately and their experiences rejected.

I don't think convoluted language has a place in ANY sphere.

In my experience it represents insecurity and a wish to badge oneself as member of a superior group. It can also be used to hide sloppy thinking.

This is why there has been a concentrated effort in past decade to strip law of its alienating Latin phrases and encourage us all to speak and write clearly.

If my taxes are paying for academics research, then they can do me the courtesy of expressing themselves clearly.

What you consider 'expressing themselves clearly', Spero might seem overly-complicated to some (say, those without postgraduate qualifications) or overly simplistic to others. It's all relative. Unless we go for the lowest common denominator. Which is hardly a way to maintain the UK's position in international education.

Yes, sorry Prom, I forget you are an acedemic too.
I think you said that quite late on in this thread, but it is stuck in my head that you are something else - dont know quite what. In my head, you are Prom Queen, which seems quite far away from acedemia!

And I also keep meaning to ask you how you are feeling now. Are you recouperating?

Thanks everyone for the answers to my question about my son.
Good helpful answers.

I don't think I've had as much fun and wanted to stick with a FWR thread as long since StewieGriffinsMon left. I enjoyed her ability to put over very strong feminist views whilst retaining a disinterested stance and respecting the views of others whilst challenging them strenuously.
She was an academic too, but one who was interested in educating others.

The new namechange is a good one PromQueen, Buffy was a mold-breaker in many ways.

!!