To get annoyed when other women say "I'm not a feminist"

[Nickabilla]

As if it's a dirty word and a shameful thing to be? I hear it every now and then and always question it. Someone said it today and I'm annoyed again.

Do some women not realise that women didn't used to be allowed to go to university, get divorced, own property or vote?

Rant over.

skylerwhite - What the living fuck is 'hu/huself'?

I like women (as a group). What can I say?

'including accusing feminists of neglecting their boys.'

Want to point to that one?

running. I cant see the problem.
Surely women can manage to be a two man team chimney sweep, or drain clearer or whatever. They would get work, sure as eggs. [Mainly, ironically, because it would be women who would hire them! Because women on the whole are the ones to look online or look in yellow pages, or in local papers].
What difference would it make if all the others in Britain were male?

Techno it was only at the agricultural revolution that property became important. The protection of property became important. This lead to the rise of the warrior to protect property and launch raids. Physical strength became premium and men took over.

With property comes inheritance. The desire to know who was yours lead to the control of women's sexuality. Women were only good for tilling the fields and bearing children. They became chattel.

oops. realise I made the error of calling it a "two man"!

It's a gender neutral term, Sigmund as I don't know if you or any other poster is male or female. Hu as in human.

People seem to think that centuries of structural inequality can be overturned just like that. And that the career choices men and women make are not at least partly driven by inherent social assumptions around gendered work. I think it's rather more complicated than some posters are making out, especially around female builders, labourers, window cleaners etc.

Skyler

No more difficult than for any profession really. If you can have quotas and positive discrimination in place to enable women to enter parliament and as board members of multi nationals then it's not going to be difficult to have a campaign to get women in trades etc. There are increasing numbers of female engineers so isn't that difficult. It simply needs a push but I don't think many are interested in pushing i.e. females.

yams - why do you think they don't? Possibly because these are male dominated industries?

It can't be because women don't like the dirty, low paid jobs. After all, women seem to be the ones in all the cleaning, caring jobs. They do the majority of nappy changes and unpaid domestic chores.

We're not talking centuries, we're talking millennia.

oops. realise I made the error of calling it a "two man"!

Which is kind of my point.

From Girl Writes What 'Femocalypse'........So, feminists are somewhat truthful when they claim that women were ?owned? as chattel. A wife?s sexuality (NOT her person), was very much ?owned? by her husband and it was in fact used as a means of production: The production of the husband?s own children.
But, as always, feminists are only capable of speaking in half-truths. The part of the ?women were owned as chattel? song leaves out the second verse, which is ?and men were owned as beasts of burden.?

Hu..O right, never heard of that one. I'm a woman btw.

running. Because women on the whole
dont want to work the majority of the time outdoors
because they dont want to work in the middle of nowhere
because they dont want to work in cold, or wet, or windy weather, for hours on end
because they dont want to work with their hands all day
because they want colleagues to talk to
because they dont want, on the whole, to work in dark, cramped, dirty spaces
etc

Why do you think that women want to do those things any less than men do?

Thanks Dione

So are we now saying that men are most definitely stronger than women or that someone or some group decided that women shouldn't fight in battles alongside men?

Or perhaps protecting a woman that was vulnerable due to pregnancy /childbirth made the decision easier?

It still puzzles me how it came to pass, during this agricultural transition, that women allowed themselves, or were forced to become chattel.

Anyway off to bed but thanks for the discussion.

Women want nice,clean, air conditioned, offices.
With shops nearby.

They do not want to be in a van somewhere, with mucky hands,overalls on, with a packed lunch and a thermos.
If they did, they would be doing it wouldnt they?
And clamouring, and lobbying for the opportunity.

When did you last see a thread on MN, saying, "I cant get into a male dominated industry"?
Never, to my knowledge.

I could go on and on about this. But I dont think I will.
Goodnight to all.

Women want nice,clean, air conditioned, offices.
With shops nearby.

Please tell me you're not serious. Women do plenty of dirty work, outdoors, and menial. Historically and now.

Cleaners? Factory workers? Nurses? Midwives? Carers? Childcarers? Housework?

I have a female bin woman and postie - jus thought I'd add that.

Practically all the jobs you quoted running, are indoor jobs.
And if you take away the word "office", it still all applies.
And your name is not exactly "inoverallsanddirty" is it?

I am going to stop now. Because by this point, people will either agree with me or not. Adieu.

xenia often quotes some great figures - Men own 99% of the world's wealth and earn 70% of its income. In the UK 4 in 5 men earn more than their wives. Women get saddled with dull childcare stuff and cleaning. Men have about 80% of positions on most boards, the cabinet and just about any institution you care to mention.

When on the whole men earn less than most women and the cabinet is about 80% female - then sigmund's idea that we live in a matriarchal society might be realised.

As far as the dirty jobs are concerned - women do plenty of the dirty work. Traditional male/female societal roles and expectations of the work sought by males and females are far more responsible for fewer female construction workers than 'women not wanting to work outside in a bit of wind.'

80% of farmers are women. Farming is generally done outdoors. I think women can cope with getting their hands dirty and working outdoors yamsareyummy

The common theme for traditional female roles seems to be they are generally low status, low paid and in 'caring' professions.

Where I am from, women were miners. Of course, where I am from is a by-word for dirt and filth, as women were judged for mining rather than mothering. But that's as may be. I guess we really can't have it all. Oh, and there aren't any mines any more.

OP:yanbu