Is it right to make a woman feel unclean?

[camel1]

I was saying 'thank you' to a male colleague and touched his upper arm as a reinforcement of that thanks. He recoiled in disgust, his body language, his facial expression and his yelp surprised me so much that I apologised profusely. The incident happened in front of many children, as I am a teacher at a school. And within a minute he had shook hands with a male colleague. Whether it was his intention or not, I felt that he felt I was unclean. I was/am greatly upset by this. I understand that his cultural or religious beliefs does not permit him to touch women, or vice versa. However, I have lived in many different countries and cultures, and I adhered to their cultural rules and would never have reacted in such an offensive way. What do you think?

He didn't make you feel unclean. You felt unclean and ascribed that feeling to his behaviour. His reaction was way over the top. So, your religion forbids something that the country you live in takes for granted. There is no need to yelp if it happens.

Wtf? I have read this exact same op , to the word, a few months ago or more.

There is a difference between a cultural practice and a religious requirement, the non-shaking of hands with the opposite sex is the latter and people of that faith/belief system are not willing to compromise regarding that. However culturally a Saudi/arab man does the kiss on cheeks with other men, but will not practise that here with English/non arab men as its not culturally acceptable.

I think it's rude, but then I was brought up to respect and allow for the culture of the country I'm in at any given time.

Perhaps he was raised to feel his culture is more important, no matter where he is?

Either way, I would've just rolled my eyes and forgotten about it a few minutes later.

Don't brood over it OP.

Wossname, I thought I had a sense of deja vu on this thread!

Someone's ridiculous beliefs should not be allowed to be a cover for sheer rudeness. And yes, I'll be picked up on the use of the word ridiculous, but believing one sector of society is inferior is ridiculous

This.

Women's rights to be considered fully and wholly human trump religious practices any time.

No, it's no-one's right to touch you if you don't want to be touched, but honestly, if it disturbs you so much that when someone touches you lightly on the arm as part of normal everyday social interaction you yelp and recoil in disgust, then maybe it's time to think about whether you might benefit from CBT or some other intervention.

I do not like unsolicited touching at all. If you do not want people to recoil from your touches because it makes you feel bad, do not touch them.

My right to decide where, when and by whom I am touched is absolute. Your right to touch someone and not feel bad about their reaction doesn't exist.

Yes, CBT and other forms of therapy are brilliant at overcoming all sorts of fears and phobias - let's face it, it must be awful to be terrified of something that it makes you yelp and recoil in disgust. Who on earth would want to live that like when you can do something positive about it?

I hate to be touched by anyone (apart from husband and daughter) and this is especially true of my colleagues, who are generally appalling.

It may have had nothing to do with your being a woman or unclean. He may just despise you.

Feel better?

I don't like being touched by anyone uninvited, I don't need CBT, people need to respect my personal space frankly.

We don't live in a touchy feely culture at work in England, I don't see anyone touching each other at work bar handshakes & those are conducted with warning.

People who think they have the right to randomly touch/tap/make physical contact with other people uninvited need to learn not to, it's not culturally acceptable to touch people at work in England or stand really close when speaking. Get over yourselves, you're wrong.

'yelping' and 'recoiling in disgust' is totally on interpretation, by the OP.

They may have been startled and jumped.

No one needs therapy so that other people, who they don't want to touch them, can touch them

It's the degree of reaction that's the point here. I really would not be bothered about being briefly touched on the arm in conversation when it is obviously instinctual and clearly means 'thank you'. To me this is a fairly frequent occurrence and a part of normal every day life.

dh doesn't really like any body contact at all, and would probably step back from such a gesture. That's usually sufficient for the other person to twig that he is not comfortable.

Now none of us were there to witness this conversation, but it would seem that the man over reacted, and gave the OP the impression that her touch wasn't just unwelcome but a source of disgust, ergo that she was disgusting. Which is very rude. It sounds to me that in response to the OP's apology she was told that it was a religious interdiction. To then happily shake hands with a passing man does seem to reinforce the women are unclean or at the very least different line to me. I'd not be happy at all.

I know OP but just ignore it, it's his problem not yours. People who want to keep antiquated beliefs going need to realise there's an alternative culture of not making women feel stupid, small and bad.

"Someone's ridiculous beliefs should not be allowed to be a cover for sheer rudeness. And yes, I'll be picked up on the use of the word ridiculous, but believing one sector of society is inferior is ridiculous"

I see someone already said this, so that's good, I agree with this comment. Sorry I can't credit you properly! Is it upthechimney or did you just quote it?

I live and work in Qatar as a senior manager. All of my equals and most of my staff are Muslim and most of them men. Most of my equals are women who touch their heart if I put out my hand and some men do, so some don't. Whichever, I always, as a western person offer a handshake and if they touch their heart then I do the same, if they offer their hand I shake it.

I do enjoy these threads, watching politically correct 'liberals' work themselves up with processing the cognitive dissonance of being tolerant of other cultures, where said cultures display outrageous intolerant bigotry.

Pompeii, that's just bang on the nose. Very clever.

By the way Theodora : how interesting - you're fitting in with the local culture. How very admirable of you.

I agree it's rude OP - even if it wasn't based on the fact you were a different sex to him it would be rude to react to someone like that without an uncontrollable condition behind it. To treat one class of people that way but not another is discrimination. Which is exactly how sexism and other forms of discrimination root themsleves in cultures, to the detriment of humankind. Acceptance of this sort of behaviour generally is tolerance of intolerance.

You mean like the ridiculous belief that if someone touches you, without your permission, you have to be ok with that?

Crumbled, are you being sarcastic or nice? Sorry not sure