to be a sham even though I can't afford it?

[Picoo]

I would really like to stay at home with my DS I don't really enjoy my job and I would like to be a full time mummy. The thing is we could only just about afford it. We would have to pay interest only on our mortgage, give up insurance such as health and maybe house insuranc my husband would have to work longer hours, etc. We would be pretty poor, and we have zero savings, but at least I would be with DS.

Is it crazy to live a poor existence but be there for DS, or should I go back to work and be more financially secure?

Amazingg thank you for answering the question. I'm intrigued by this though:

"It's not some kind of performance, being a parent, the child isn't judging you. You can have bad days."

Well, yes. I know I can have bad days. But actually I'm not sure the lesson of everything not being focused on them and mummy has bad days is one a two year old particularly needs to learn. I think it's more important to limit those bad days as far as possible.

I also know for a fact that my children benefit from me being happy when I am with them, because I see it myself.

I'm not going to pretend I went back to work part time purely for their benefit, but the positive impact my well-being has on them definitely made the decision easier.

Oh, and I'm equally sure that my DH, who works pretty long hours, is not a worse parent because of that. Just as I have no reason to suppose that you are a better parent than your own DH purely because you are there more of the time.

Good parenting isn't purely about quantity.

I must admit I agree wholeheartedly with flowery, jinsei and others who have said them working (part time? Can't remember) is much better for their family as a whole, because of their own wellbeing. If course children are going to be happier if their parents are happy and fulfilled. It's not selfish to put your own needs as a mother up there with the needs of your children. They need happy parents and for some, SAHM does not equal happiness.

Having a year off on mat leave after dc2 led to me being diagnosed and treated for PND. I now know it was a lack of me time and structure that caused it, as well as a lack of anything other than my children in my life.

Went back full time and hated not being with them, plus all the logistical stress of having household and toddlers.

Went back part time and achieved perfect balance. I'm fulfilled and refreshed, have structure in my week, LOVE my time with my children. They are DEFINITELY happier now than they were.

Exactly, I grew up with a mother who had mental health problems due to having had to give up work and it was much better for all of us when she went back to work.

this thread is still plodding on? Wow!
Seriously people, if you're confident and content with your choices, you don't have to defend them on mumsnet.
Or anywhere.
Reading the last few pages has reinforced my number one pet peeve about mumsnet and parenting fora in general:
People Don't Read Properly.
Several posters have misquoted, misconstrued, deliberately misunderstood, misinterpreted, taken out of context and made various assumptions based on their own prejudices.
Read The Thread Properly.
And Don't Contribute If You Haven't Read The Whole Thread.

Stepaway any chance of an answer to my earlier question about whether you feel home schooling is better for every child, or whether it's only preschool children you feel must be with someone who loves them 24-7?

I've never suggested that children should be at home 24/7, but that children prefer being with their parents, which is hardly the most outrageous or controversial statement.
Certainly I believe babies/toddlers are better off with a sahp if the sahp wants to be sahp and the home environment is healthy and safe. Again, I'm shocked if anyone finds that a controversial or inflammatory statement.
Also, the 'end result' (and I have two older kids including one teen) can't just be measured by anecdotal remarks like 'mine are all grown and don't remember anything about their babyhood/toddler years/childhood because anyone who knows anything about psychology knows that we're shaped by unconscious as well as conscious experience.
I use daycare. I use a cm and holiday clubs. But I don't ever try to pretend that it's better my kids go there than be looked after at home. School isn't daycare (as my teacher friends constantly point out, since some parents fail to grasp that)
I am someone who has used a nursery for a baby, but can also acknowledge that being looked after by me or their dad at home would've been better. If that's arrogant or controversial, that's fine. We're not on the same page. That's fine.

Yes, that's what you believe. But many of us with teenagers know that our children have not been adversely affected by having been in childcare. And yes, we know children are shaped by experiences of which they have no conscious memory- I made that point earlier today.
We're not trying to say childcare is 'better' than being with a parent. It's different. That doesn't make it better - or worse. Just a different experience, which for many of is ultimately as good as having been at home full time would have been. I don't see what's so controversial about that frankly.

Also, the 'end result' (and I have two older kids including one teen) can't just be measured by anecdotal remarks like 'mine are all grown and don't remember anything about their babyhood/toddler years/childhood because anyone who knows anything about psychology knows that we're shaped by unconscious as well as conscious experience.

But what does that even mean

Certainly I believe babies/toddlers are better off with a sahp

How can you say that? How do you know that they are better off?

I don't say that being a SAHM is better that a WOHM, or vice versa. I don't say that a child is better off at home than at a nursery.

I don't say it because I don't know that. I have never seen anything that proves or disproves either statement.

I am simply curious to get an answer from those posters that do assert that one way is better than another. How do those posters know that is the case.

I can see how you would prove it was better for the parent in specific cases, for and against childcare - but those posters specifically pointed out that it was better for the children. Well how do you measure that. Has anyone had a teen approach them thanking mum for staying at home with them when they were a baby?

I'm genuinely interested

where we disagree is that you believe external childcare providers can be just as good as parental care.
I will never ever pretend to believe that, despite having used some brilliant daycare providers over the past 13 years or so and continuing to use them today.
Parental care is better. It's dishonest to claim otherwise.
I did lol at the person who asked me to quantify why children are better cared for by their parents and it did make me wonder at the sort of parenting they do.
Unless you have an unstable, unhappy home environment, it's the best place to raise kids, especially babies/toddlers.

I could paste links to research and studies carried out which add weight to my posts, but won't bother cos I don't need to and won't try to justify. No need.

Who mentioned being at home 24-7?

You feel all children are better off being (and therefore presumably should be) cared for someone who loves them rather than involving any professional childcare.

You mentioned yourself that the reason you are better as a carer than your childminder is that you love them.

I just wondered whether the view that children are better off with someone who loves them extends to school-age children.

But childcare doesn't replace parental care. It is an experience which some parents use in some form for some of the time . It's pointless to say 'parental care is better' because you're not comparing like with like. I didn't send my children to nursery for parental care- they went there for a different experience which was part of their overall life experience. Not 'better' or 'worse' than not going would have been. Just different.

I know that my now teenage children have not been adversely affected by having been to nursery and a cm.
As the thread has progressed, it's become clear that you do actually believe, stepaway, that your child has a less positive life experience overall due to the time she spends in childcare. That's very sad for you, to be in a situation where you have no choice but to put up with a situation you feel is less good. BUT - we come back to the crux of the issue here- you cannot extrapolate from that, that all parents who use childcare feel the same as you do.

Who outsources all parental care to child care providers? I mean who?

I don't know anyone!

But childcare doesn't replace parental care. It is an experience which some parents use in some form for some of the time . It's pointless to say 'parental care is better' because you're not comparing like with like. I didn't send my children to nursery for parental care- they went there for a different experience which was part of their overall life experience. Not 'better' or 'worse' than not going would have been. Just different.

I know that my now teenage children have not been adversely affected by having been to nursery and a cm.
As the thread has progressed, it's become clear that you do actually believe, stepaway, that your child has a less positive life experience overall due to the time she spends in childcare. That's very sad for you, to be in a situation where you have no choice but to put up with a situation you feel is less good. BUT - we come back to the crux of the issue here- you cannot extrapolate from that, that all parents who use childcare feel the same as you do.

Oops posted twice there.
I'm glad you didn't bother linking to 'research' too... That quickly becomes a tired game of batting back and forth with people quoting 'research' to conclude whatever point they want to conclude!

Parenting is far more profound than googling a bit of research to tell you how to make decisions. Good, loving parents make decisions from the perspective of knowing their own child best .

Yet another SAHM/WOHP thread rages on.

Just a reminder that the OP's plans put the H bit under serious threat, so it wasn't exactly a straight choice.

Chund, I don't care if I look like I 'don't know shit' cos what people who've never met me on the interweb think of me is so far off my radar almost to be invisible.

stepaway you are funny .

I know I'm right and everyone else is wrong.
And I have evidence.
But I'm not showing you.
Nuh huh.
And I don't care that it makes me look a twat...

that's fortunate!

Wow they are a lot of people on here desperate to justify their lives to random strangers and hoik up some serious judgey pants.

If you have to work, you have to work.
If you want to work, you want to work.
If your child is in childcare, that's up to you.
If you SAH with them, that's up to you.

However I will add that as a child we lived without any spare money and that fact alone did not make my childhood unhappy.

Yeap very true

I don't personally feel any need to justify my choices. I am content that we have done what is right for our family and that's all that matters om that front.

However, I am interested in challenging some of the negative stereotypes about WOHMs/childcare, as I have seen how these can impact on women's decisions, and how people can feel guilted into making choices that may not be right for them. Stereotypes about SAHMs are probably equally unhelpful.

stepaway you are funny grin.
I know I'm right and everyone else is wrong.
And I have evidence.
But I'm not showing you.
Nuh huh.
And I don't care that it makes me look a twat...
that's fortunate

This is called confidence.
I don't have to prove anything, especially not to faceless strangers on t'interweb. I indulged in that shit when I was 10 years younger and desperate to justify why I was leaving dd1 in a nursery.
Not any more.
If I wanted to, I could type out a fucking essay detailing the many and varied reasons why I reached the conclusion I did. But I simply can't be arsed, because no matter how compelling, accurate or persuasive, a dozen mumsnetters would come back with aggressive rebuffs, over half of which would contain no reference to anything I'd said since they hadn't bothered to read it through properly. And it would change nothing, not least their opinions.
It's as frustrating as shovelling snow when it's still snowing.