to be a sham even though I can't afford it?

[Picoo]

I would really like to stay at home with my DS I don't really enjoy my job and I would like to be a full time mummy. The thing is we could only just about afford it. We would have to pay interest only on our mortgage, give up insurance such as health and maybe house insuranc my husband would have to work longer hours, etc. We would be pretty poor, and we have zero savings, but at least I would be with DS.

Is it crazy to live a poor existence but be there for DS, or should I go back to work and be more financially secure?

[OrangeMochaFrappucino]

Keep getting sucked back into those thread! I'd love to stay at home with ds and can absolutely see how this would benefit him. However, this is not an option due to finances. What neither Amazinggg nor Stepaway have addressed is this - if you couldn't be the SAHP would you still be so insistent that a toddler needs a f/t parent at home? Because I would not be prepared to work long hours and be the sole breadwinner for ds to have a SAHP. Would you? And if one parent staying at home means the other is stressed, unhappy and sees little of their own child, can you really say that is best for the family?

I'd never criticise the choice to SAH and wish I could afford to make that choice myself. I can see how it benefits the child. But there are many varied and flexible childcare arrangements made by working families all the time that benefit everyone, including the children.

[Wishihadabs]

FWIW DH (who is more that way inclined) did SAH for 18 m whilst I worked ft (I am the higher earner). In the end he also preferred to spend some time WOH.

[Wishihadabs]

Sorry didn't come back ( busy in rl). Daftdame said something very pertinent earlier that successful SAHP generally quite like their own company, being at home and pottering (for want of a better word). I am realy not like this at all, I love the hustle and bustle of work, don't mind sleep deprivation. I only work pt but was gagging to get back to it after both maternity leaves.

[Jinsei]

I don't use childcare now either, word, as DH and I can work flexibly around dd's needs. And even the SAHMs on this thread have agreed that our previous childcare arrangements were "awesome" so I have no particular axe to grind. Hell, DH was a SAHD for just over a year!

SAH is obviously the best option for some families at some times, I have no quarrel with that. However, there is a huge leap from this to the assumption that having a SAHP is somehow best for all families - or at least, for all children - at all times. I don't need to justify my own choices to anyone, but I would struggle to ignore such erroneous logic.

[wordfactory]

How can I possibly be defensive about someghting I haven't done?

I said I don't use childcare. I don't need to. I can work flexibly around my DC...

So when I say I don't think it much matters...that's what I think.

[Jinsei]

said the 14 year old to her playground nemesis... sigh

Nah, my playground nemesis was intelligent enough to put together a coherent argument. None of this "I know it 'coz I know it" crap.

[janey68]

I know you work and use childcare. You said you're not happy with it and believe that your child would have a better experience without it.
Amazingg has also revealed that her life would have a better balance if she had not had to give up work totally, but was able to work part time, with her husband doing likewise and sharing childcare.

So, given that two of you by your own admission are not spectacularly content with your lives, it really does come across as supremely ironic (as well as bizarre) to be telling the rest of us we're getting it wrong.

Many of us have said that we are happy with the balance of our working and home lives, our children are happy and our partners are happy. So really, this seems to be a case of two posters who aren't particularly happy with their own situation transferring their resentment onto families who are.

[stepawayfromthescreen]

Off now. Won't engage with people who can't read properly.

[stepawayfromthescreen]

I've never said daycare is bad.
Read
The
Thread
Properly
Ffs
Or don't contribute to it.

[stepawayfromthescreen]

What rubbish.
And you've clearly not read my posts properly or you'd know that I'm not a sahm. I work. I use daycare.
I worked full time in the past, too.
Jeez, read the thread properly or don't bother.
Leaving now, hiding thread. Truly bored of shovelling snow.

[janey68]

I think anyone who claims they know what's best for everyone else's children is going to be in a very small minority actually.

Don't kid yourselves you're part of some large group of intelligent, respectful mums who choose to be SAHM themselves but have the capacity to get their head round the fact that this isn't the only one best way to do things.

You hold the extremist and quite bizarre view, grounded in nothing other than 'just knowing ', that using childcare is bad for ALL families (with the possible exception of where the family is really abusive!) Yeap, definitely a minority view in RL and on here.

[stepawayfromthescreen]

and I bet the fast vanished original posters on threads like this set them up to play sham vs wohm bingo.
The bingo card was full about 3 pages ago, so game over.

[stepawayfromthescreen]

amazinggg, I don't think we're in the minority either on here or in real life. I usually try to avoid threads like this because they always go the same way and are dominated by the same defensive posters, so other posters just steer away.
It's not that they don't exist, they just can't be arsed debating with people who'd argue the world is flat.

[FasterStronger]

amazing As long as we have such a long hours culture then it's impossible IMO to put the children genuinely first.

if you really think children are harmed by not having a SAHP, surely men are the worst offenders in your view, as they are least likely to SAH?

maybe you should be targeting men to encourage them to provide more childcare, not criticising women for not providing as much as you think they should?

[wordfactory]

If you woz properly confident, you wouldn't keep repeating yourself and coming back...says the poster repeating herslef and coming back...

...

Tell me I'm not the only one PMSL at that!!!!

[janey68]

Oh and as for the sneering 'mock away janey': get your facts straight.
No one has mocked at the fact that you know what's best for your children. People have quite rightly laughed in disbelief at your assertion that you just know what's best for everyone else's.

[janey68]

I think you're assuming a victim mentality amazinggg.
You are ignoring the fact that while you think everyone who works and uses childcare is somehow not doing the best for their children, the WOHM on here are not dismissing your views in the same arrogant way. We've all said: fine, stay at home if you want to: it's yours and your partners decision.
The only poster I have ever come across who holds opposite but equally bigoted views to you (ie that women MUST work and preferably as soon as pushing the placenta out) is Xenia, and afaik she hasn't commented on this thread.
The rest of us are saying, fine, don't work if you feel it's not best for your family. Just accept that it doesn't mean working and using childcare is detrimental for everyone else.

[Amazinggg]

Jinsei I agree that stereotypes aren't useful. To be honest this thread has been useful for me to have an insight into how all the many people I know who do work long hours with their toddlers in nursery feel.

But on MN and in my rl at least, particularly with the current backdrop - anyone who feels the way I and stepaway feel are very much outnumbered, disenfranchised, looked down on and misunderstood. Everywhere I am extorted to get myself back to work. Poor jobless me. I feel like I don't have a voice, especially politically, and as a SAHM who isn't a raging Tory, there aren't many avenues for discussing my view and having it accepted. I know at least I'm not alone in just knowing (mock away Janey) that a SAHP is best for toddlers and worth many many sacrifices. It's really hard to reconcile that with the real world, where of course women should have high powered careers and compete at the same level as men, and have fulfilling lives outside the home. But now as a parent, I'm looking at it from the kids' viewpoint and it's a Catch 22. The best thing IMO for most people (as not many people want o e at home 24/7 with kids, perfectly understandably) is being able to both go part time and share childcare. As long as we have such a long hours culture then it's impossible IMO to put the children genuinely first.

[janey68]

A summary of step asides view:

I have worked and used childcare. I don't think it's the best thing for my children. I assume from my experience that everyone else believes the same as me, and if they say they don't, then they are deluding themselves.

Oh. My. Word.

[HazleNutt]

So it's fine for one person to say that "I have confidence and I don't need to prove anything" but if the other says the same, they are 14-year olds in a playground? How exactly does that work?

[FasterStronger]

It's as frustrating as shovelling snow when it's still snowing

then don't

[stepawayfromthescreen]

Too right. 'Coz we have confidence too. And experience to back it up.


said the 14 year old to her playground nemesis... sigh

[Jinsei]

And it would change nothing, not least their opinions.

Too right. 'Coz we have confidence too. And experience to back it up.