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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Jeremy Forrest verdict - aibu to be confused?

999 replies

noddyboulder · 20/06/2013 14:54

Yep, I don't think even his own parents could deny he's a massive, hideous scumbag with no impulse control - but how can he have been found guilty of abduction when the girl he had an affair with said it was her idea to go to France and she went willingly?

Can somebody legal shed some light?

OP posts:

catsrus · 22/06/2013 14:22

I am relieved that the law, at last, recognises the inbalance of power inherent in a teacher - pupil relationship, and the subtlety of what grooming can look like. I don't think the sentence is at all unduly harsh.

I think the confusion is arising around the whole area of how legally competent a 15 yr old is to consent to what happens to her body. The Fraser guidelines on contraception (including abortion) are clear that a 15yr old can have the moral agency to decide to take contraception and /or have an abortion without parental knowledge or consent. The Gillick competency ruling states that she would also be able to consent to major surgery likewise. I was certainly aware, as the mother of teenagers, that they might be engaging in activities that i thought were unwise but that the law could prevent me from even knowing about it. According to the law a 15 yr old is capable of making a decision to engage in sexual activity and can legally obtain confidential contraceptive advice with no risk of being reported to parents or other authorities.

What is crucial in this case is the inherent power imbalance and the way in which the relationship became sexual. THAT's why he was convicted - not because 15 yr olds are unable to consent!

I've got friends who met when he taught her in 6th form. They've been married for 35 yrs but even back then, when the boundaries were not so clear, didn't start dating until she was at University - because he knew how inappropriate that would be.

flippinada · 22/06/2013 14:22

He was an adult in a position of trust with a vulnerable young person.

He exploited that vulnerability and betrayed the trust placed in him in the most callous, calculated and self serving way.

RikeBider · 22/06/2013 14:23

It's rather easy for adult men to seduce 14 year old girls, isn't it? Just having a car and some disposable income is impressive enough, buy some gifts, maybe alcohol and cigarettes that she wouldn't be able to buy on her own. Treat her like a grown up and make her feel special. If you pick a girl who is a bit low, maybe one who is being bullied or whose parents are divorcing, and I would think most adult men could persuade a 14 or 15 year old to willingly have sex with them if they wanted to.

I'm a 30 year old woman and am rather less impressed by a car and a few cheap presents and can buy my own fags and booze. I would be rather more difficult to seduce than a lonely teenager I reckon.

Maryz · 22/06/2013 14:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

congresstart · 22/06/2013 14:24

This thread is the most depressing thing I have read on MN...the views I have read disgust me quite frankly.

The amount of people minimising what this man has done is just mind blowing, the tragedy is she will probably wait for him and live her life controlled and never be given time to see the situation for what it really is. What a waste of a young life, but hey no harm done. as long as he couldn't help himself.

This whole thread has given me the rage...thank the lord for the sensible voices that can see the real picture.

Branleuse · 22/06/2013 14:25

""Branleuse, it wasn't a quick, spur of the moment fling with an almost 16 year old.

It was a determined and long-running pursuit of a 14 and then 15 year old.

And for teacher/pupil relationships the effective AOC is 18 anyway.

So he started when she was FOUR YEARS away from the relationship being legal. Not to mention the fact that he knew she was a troubled child and thus even more vulnerable than the average 14 year old.""

I think im having my opinion changed

Maryz · 22/06/2013 14:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

5madthings · 22/06/2013 14:31

Good bran and kudos for saying so.

BasilBabyEater · 22/06/2013 14:31

I am at this moment listening to Any Answers on R4 and it's depressing to hear how many people instantly focus on the behaviour of the girl.

It doesn't matter how a child behaves, how "grown up" she looks, how sexually developed she might present, how much she flirts, whether she "throws herself" at an adult man.

All that is utterly, supremely irrelevant. All that matters is how the adult in this scenario behaves. In the end, it is up to all adults to protect children and if a kid throws him or herself at you, FGS behave like a grown up and decline. And if you want to have a sexual relationship with someone who is at a lifestage where they have much less experience of relationships and just life in general, you need to ask yourself whether you have the right to de-rail that young person's life and why you are awarding yourself that right - and why you even want that right in the first place.

Flobbadobs · 22/06/2013 14:51

I think I've caught up with this thread and haven't seen the latest news posted so am going to.
It looks very much like she wasn't the first girl he groomed:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10136139/Jeremy-Forrest-routinely-cuddled-me-aged-13-says-another-former-pupil.html

And he may have indirectly contacted the girl to get her to change her story too..
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23008649

This was in no way love on his part, he systematically grooms or tries to groom young girls to get his kicks.
Sorry if the links have already been posted x

imnotmymum · 22/06/2013 14:56

Thanks for your concern Mummy. However I suggest I am doing just fine and have had a lovely life and continue to do so. Stockholm syndrome-how funny. I do love mumsnet posters are always saying men so controlling and poor women do not know their own mind but when a woman says she OK well she is wrong and in denial !!
I am watching the developments regarding the stories breaking and if their is evidence to suggest he done this before then I will be on it!!

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 22/06/2013 14:59

RikeBider

Agree.mmen like him are actuallt pathetic, because they couldn't sustain a relationship with an equal

flippinada · 22/06/2013 15:06

All of this begs the questions of what his relationship with his wife was like.

I feel desperately sorry for her, she must be going through absolute hell.

congresstart · 22/06/2013 15:07

imnot...you are very misguided if you can't see what wrongs he has done to this girl.

Adults don't behave in the way he has...there is no excuse good enough IMHO.

merrymouse · 22/06/2013 15:09

I don't think the rules that allow a girl under the age of 16 to get contraception/abortion without parental consent do suggest that a 15 year old is old enough to deal with the practical and emotional consequences of sex.

They just accept that there is no way to stop a minor from having sex, that they will certainly need help to deal with the possible consequences of sex (STD's and Pregnancy), and that this help may not be forthcoming from their parents.

flippinada · 22/06/2013 15:13

That sounds a bit prurient and I haven't phrased it very well. I don't mean that I want to know the ins and outs of their married life...him hiding all of this from her also demonstrates the capacity for sustained, long-standing deception. If he can do that to an adult woman then he can easily do it to a young girl.

Dawndonna · 22/06/2013 15:16

Thank you Bran and really impressed that you had the courage and dignity to say it in public.

UrbaneLandlord · 22/06/2013 15:17

Please could someone explain to me why the suffering of the girl who had a sexual relationship with Jeremy Forrest is any worse than the suffering of millions of girls of a similar age-range (or less!) in many countries of the world (like India, Pakistan, Afghanistan), who are married off to men of a similar age or older?

Are they not just as worthy of our concern & compassion?

Where is the media panic and out-raged mumsnet thread for them?

merrymouse · 22/06/2013 15:19

People in other countries are not subject to the laws of the UK.

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 22/06/2013 15:21

Urbane

I hate it when people imply that caring about one thing means yo don't care about another.

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 22/06/2013 15:22

And no- one said it was worse.

imnotmymum · 22/06/2013 15:22

So it is about the legality rather than the morality? Rather blows the argument out of the water if our laws said consent was 13 then it would be OK?

5madthings · 22/06/2013 15:23

Well on another thread it has been said "it takes two to tango" and the girl must be partially responsible.... Bangs head on brick wall.

urbane I am upset and outraged by that as well, interestingly I was on the train the other day and there was a charity poster about that issue which my 8 yr old read and then I had to explain to him that whilst we have laws in our country to protect children that is not the case every where in the world. This is being discussed as its front page news, that doesn't mean we don't care about atrocities elsewhere in the world.

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn · 22/06/2013 15:24

Of course not imnotmymum, because the law says that a teacher cannot have a sexual relationship ship with anyone in their care under the age of 18.

5madthings · 22/06/2013 15:24

No it wouldn't its not about the age of consent, its about him abusing his position if authority and trust to manipulate a vulnerable person.

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