Jeremy Forrest verdict - aibu to be confused?

[noddyboulder]

Yep, I don't think even his own parents could deny he's a massive, hideous scumbag with no impulse control - but how can he have been found guilty of abduction when the girl he had an affair with said it was her idea to go to France and she went willingly?

Can somebody legal shed some light?

Branleuse, of course teenage girls have sexual feelings and urges. That's normal. If they get a boyfriend of roughly the same age and fool about, that's normal. If a grown adult who holds a position of power over her and who knows she is troubled (self-harming, etc.), has sex with her when she is under the age of consent and creates a secret relationship with her and then takes her to another country without her parents' knowledge or consent when he is not legally allowed to do so without their permission (which they wouldn't give, seeing as she was under the age of consent), then THAT is so far from normal that it might as well be Jupiter. It doesn't matter what she felt or wanted, no decent adult man would reciprocate whatsoever. In fact, if she was going out with a boy her same age, and he was using her Mh issues to manipulate their relationship and then took her away from her family without warning, I'd consider him to be a weirdo, a creep and an abuser.

If you truly cannot see the difference between you going out with an 18 yr old when you were 15 and what happened between Forrest and this girl, or that rape is not 'just' someone doing sex to you against your will, then you are simply incapable of being fit to engage in this debate. Intellectually and morally.

Listening to BBC Question Time on Radio 4. Much more balanced and rational discussion than on this thread IMO, I think this MN thread is as extreme as DM in its way.

I suspect the number of separate crimes he committed led to the length of his sentence.

It doesn't matter what she felt or wanted, no decent adult man would reciprocate whatsoever.

I think the only person who would believe this not to be the case would be a 15 year old girl, hence why they are protected by the law. No healthy adult woman would respect a 30 year old teacher who liked to spend his free time chatting on-line with his teenage pupils, never mind start a relationship with them.

Leaving aside whether 16 should or shouldn't be the age of consent, If this were some great love specific to this girl he would have waited until he could have a legal relationship with her and she was mature enough to compare him to other men. If he were a balanced individual who genuinely wanted a long term relationship with her he would have been able to predict that underage sex and abduction to France was not the way to go.

I think it's reasonable for an 18 year old boy to claim he had not thought through consequences of his actions. The same cannot be said of a maths teacher in his 30's.

Other things a 15 year old girl might believe:

"My wife just doesn't understand me"
"I cannot control my need to have sex"

I am hiding this thread, I was manipulated as a teenager into sexual activity due to a power imbalance and would rather cut off my own arm/leg or head than have my child think it's normal.

Go ahead and romanticise all you like but it is not normal for a person in position of power to create a sexual relationship with a minor, and a particularly vulnerable one at that. They and by extension and your excuses YOU are sick weirdos.

I only hope that you never have to experience sexual abuse, as much as it would enlighten you, it not something I would wish on anyone.

We had a similar case locally a couple of years ago, minus the abduction.

He ended up getting an 18 month prison sentence. But I was totally amazed at how many people I knew thought it was sort of ok and just a lapse of his judgement. This was a man who was nearly 50 and the girl was just 16.

Even if at the time the girl thinks she's having a relationship as people have shown on this thread, in 10 years time she is unlikely to look back and reflect on her great love affair but more to realise that she was abused by a predator.

For me, these issues are totally black and white.

I also feel very sorry for his wife.

Im not saying ANY of this is perfectly ok. Im just discussing how I feel about it, in a thread about it.
Of course he shouldnt have done this, and I never said that I thought that adults should be able to just have sex with children.

What I am saying, is that I think that it maybe should have been taken into account how close to the AOC she was, and the fact that she was very willing.

It changes it from being an outrageous case of abuse, to being a bit.......meh

Bran she was just 14 years old when he started to groom her. So are you saying adults in sexualised relationships with 14 year olds children is alright as long as the child and adult say "ohhh it was/is love"?

Its pretty much impossible to have a discussion on here about female sexual choices without people getting hysterical because those choices werent made entirely in a void and because they involve sex, which even in enlightened times, we are still absolutely terrified about sex and interpersonal relationships full stop
even if choices were made for the wrong reasons, and we end up regretting them, it doesnt mean those choices werent valid.

I think it could actually be a really interesting discussion.

no. Have I said that ANYWHERE?

No it doesn't. He manipulated a vulnerable girl into the position of seemingly giving consent. She was vulnerable, he was clever, persuasive and manipulative. She may well be thinking she loves him and that she gave her consent. She may not believe that in five years time.
She was not able to give consent, partly because she was underage and partly because she had/has/is being manipulated.
FGS, there is no middle ground here, no meh.

Theres a middle ground between something being great, and something being terrible and throw away the key.

I think i am also a bit meh, because there are power imblances in relationships all the time. ALL the time. I find it a shame, but i just dont see why this is all such a massive story.

It would have been a very different situation if a 14 year old was making a choice to become sexually involved with a boy her own age though. When you start talking about children making "choices" to get into sexual relationships with much older, more powerful men then it's not just a choice.

Lots of sexually abused or exploited children enter into those relationships willingly, don't they? Lots of them appreciate the love, attention and gifts they receive in return.

I stepped away from this thread yesterday because it was winding me up and triggering a lot of unpleasant emotions but I suggest you go back and read posts from me and others who have experienced such an abuse of power. Many thanks.

bran my questions are as a result of your comments. You seem to imply that children can freely make maturely chooses to have a sexual relationship with a grown adult. What I would like to understand is when does this become aborant for you? At what age do you draw the line in this sort of case? Or is there no line for you?

Why do you think she was 'willing'? Perhaps because someone who was in a position of trust, someone whose job it is to look after the emotional well being of the children in his care used that access to fuck one. A 30 year old adult, who simply by choosing that girl to flatter and sweettalk, over the other dozens he taught, made her feel special.

Branleuse what do you think about the calculated and repeated deception involved on JF's part that took place over a period of months?

He knew fine well what he was doing was wrong. He lied repeatedly to his colleagues, his wife, the girls mother..

I really think the age of consent debate is a red herring here.

I was totally amazed at how many people I knew thought it was sort of ok and just a lapse of his judgement. This was a man who was nearly 50 and the girl was just 16.

It's so weird how there are so many people who'll excuse a grown man's intentional abuse of an adolescent in their care as a forgivable "lapse of judgement" or as "foolishness". There's so much sympathy for them and so many excuses made for them. I don't get it at all.

And seemingly no understanding of the harm these involvements cause to the kids - no concern for their disrupted education, the damage done to their family relationships, the stress caused to them by the police investigations and by becoming an object of widespread gossip. None of this seems to matter.

It's like the man is seen as a weak, foolish but understandably fallible human being but the young girl isn't seen as fully human in the same way. She's just a juicy little temptress, a sex object, not a real, vulnerable person.

I think the St Trinians films and the UK's general fetishisation of schoolgirls has a lot to answer for.

I think any thirty something year old bloke who wants to have sex with a 14 yr old is a right weirdo and a paedo! End of! He has manipulated this girl and tainted her teenage life forever, when she's older and his age, and sees boys of 14 yrs old, she will realise how wrong it was for him to do what he did. She can't see it now cos she's so young and thinks they are "in love".