Jeremy Forrest verdict - aibu to be confused?

[noddyboulder]

Yep, I don't think even his own parents could deny he's a massive, hideous scumbag with no impulse control - but how can he have been found guilty of abduction when the girl he had an affair with said it was her idea to go to France and she went willingly?

Can somebody legal shed some light?

AF - should I read this thread or will it make me sad? I haven't got over Serena William's comments on rape yet so really don't want to push my blood pressure too much...

You can go round in circles all you like, but I keep coming back to this:

If he really loved her, he would have waited.

There is absolutely no reason for him to have allowed their relationship to become sexual. If it was about love, he could have waited, and knowing the situation he was in as her teacher and her being a minor, he absolutely should have. He did not. He wanted to have what he wanted, and now he's being rightly punished for that.

It doesn't matter in the slightest what she said, thought, felt or did. The onus was ALL on him and his behaviour, and he failed spectacularly to do the right thing at any point whatsoever. Not ONE scrap of evidence during the trial was about how he tried to put her off, or avoided her, or told her they should wait, or talked to anyone about the situation, or told anyone she was planning on going to France or anything. He knew full well what the situation was and where the line was and he crossed it, because he wanted to cross it. And now he's going to prison for a few years.

I think that it's very likely that she'll meet someone else in that time, and realise that what she felt for him wasn't what she thought.

The girl in question has a history of self harming and feeling suicidal, she is now estranged from her parents and it appears she is still infatuated with her abuser (and he is an abuser who has manipulated a vulnerable girl) so hardly likely that there will be a 'happy ever after'... Fgs.

Seriously horrified by some posts and reports on this issue. And a sincerely hope they manage to get some kind of restraining order so he can have no contact with the girl.

I really did not mean that. I was making the point that she does not see herself as the victim. Maybe with hindsight she will maybe she won't.

Even if she doesnt think she is a victim or see herself as a victim she still IS a victim. A crime has been committed, a man in a position of authority has abused that position to manipulate a vulnerable girl. She most certainly is a victim.

Has anyone who thinks his sentence is harsh actually considered the possibility that other sentences might just be unjustly lenient? And imnotmymum, this thread hasn't been your finest hour to be fair.

Whatever Avon. I know what I meant and I should learn my lesson that mumsnet may not but react in such a manner. I have apologised if I caused upset but I believe in a free country everyone is entitled to their opinion and not everyone will agree. I cannot see where I have justified his actions I just stated how the girl may be thinking. Not saying it was right just how she may be thinking.

Imnotmymum she may not see herself as a victim but she still is a victim. Much further up thread I said this already but I didn't consider myself to be a victim of my teacher/abuser for years. It wasn't until my middle twenties when I had a complete nervous breakdown that I realised I had been. Before that I would have just said I was someone who had fallen in love. A huge part of the grooming process is to make the victim feel culpable in some way.

step read the thread if you like

there is a minority of victim-blaming comments, but they may be disproportionately enraging

up to you, dude

Stockholm syndrome.

Imnotmymum. Victims of grooming often don't feel like victims at the time - that's what grooming means.

Your argument seems to have boiled down to the fact that "she may be all right" in the future.

He abused his position as her teacher and he took her to France without her mother's permission. She is a victim of a criminal act.

I think imnotmymum you're transferring your own experience onto this. But I'm guessing you weren't taken abroad secretly and on the front covers of newspapers and neither was your boyfriend also your teacher? So your experience is very different to this one.

The judge was clear this relationship was pushed by the teacher. She was groomed.

That's the pernicious thing about sexual abuse of minors. They think they are in an equal and loving relationship and then discover they were just being used. Just because she can't see it now doesn't mean she's not a victim of a crime.

I'm scared but I'll give it a go shortly, may get wine first.

I seem to spend my whole life screaming at the moment 'I don't give a SHIT what she was wearing/drinking/doing, HE chose to RAPE HER' ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

I feel like Shirls did when she first started 'seeing' feminism and you start thinking all the time and realising exactly how shit towards women this world is and it drives you mad

step oh I hear you!

I did not create an argument, I merely made a comment. I have no theoretical backing for my comment therefore did not create an argument . Just stated hindsight and the mumsnet keyboards went mad...

I am all for everyone having their opinion. I am also all for having my opinions challenged and challenging others in theirs.

It's healthy, however, by the very nature of threads such as this, there is naturally some hot debate.

The number of men and women commenting on the Mail seem to be on side of Forrest (why am I surprised?). I find it disturbing that many see nothing wrong in any of it. So many men think because a young girl wears make-up and/or looks older that they invite attention. It is up to them (the men) to be the adult and not act on their desire. I find it disturbing that the blame is directed at or jointly to the victim. I wouldn't fancy a 15 year old boy and even if I did, I would wait until he was 18 before instigating anything. Some twat even posted on the Mail that it wasn't that long ago that 12 year old girls got married! Wtf?!!

I am thankful on a daily basis that the readers/commenters on the DM site are not also the Lawmakers...

Yy step, bloody awful isn't it.

I fancied my maths teacher when I was 15. If he had shown any interest in me I might have happily gone to bed with him convincing myself that despite him being older and married it was love.
Thankfully he had more sense/ wasn't interested.
Looking back I see it as a pupil teacher crush because if I had met him in any other context than as my teacher I wouldn't have looked twice at him. Teachers have to realise that young girls show an interest in them BECAUSE they are their teacher/ lecturer etc.
This girl was only just 15 when he started giving her sexual signals. Once he felt any sort of sexual attraction for her he should have known it was time to move further away from her, not closer.
I don't think she was responsible at all for this. She flirted with her teacher as many young girls do.

Full statement from the judge here, if anyone hasn't seen it and is interested

sentencing remarks

What stands out for me is this (quoting from the statement, italics are mine):

""You have contested the abduction charge raising a spurious defence, so that she had to give evidence, evidence very different in content from her original account and designed to support it. She had clearly received assistance in relation to what she should say."

Berts, thank you for sharing your story. It just shows how these things evolve - and how they are crimes. Anyone with a shred of common sense and morality knows that.