To feel a little sorry for the 7 children benefits Mum.

[MilgramsLittleHelper]

www.itv.com/daybreak/hottopics/benefits-mum/

Is just seems like another bit of benefit bashing to me.

I know she shouldn't have had children she couldn't afford, but what hope of improving her lot???

[FasterStronger]

Carpe, we pay people more money if they have children. And more money with more children. It is not really surprising we have more children whose parents rely wholy on benefits than Italy.

Also if you are a single man in the UK you are low priorty for housing and reveive low benefits. Move into a household with children to get a house, a large house and greater income. Have a child to secure your place as 'head of household'.

If it works, fine. If not, you cannot afford to pay for your child so no cost to you.

[lottieandmia]

'As I said in an earlier post if a cap on the number of children that the state will support was bought in then it may make people think twice.'

I really doubt it would.

[morethanpotatoprints]

All I can surmise from this thread is that there are many jealous people who seem to be more bothered about the life of someone else, rather than concentrating on their own families.
It can only be jelousy because the only understandable argument is the one about tax payers funding this lifestyle. Do people objecting to this woman believe their tax would be invested in something much better than supporting someone much worse off than themselves?

[lottieandmia]

'They can because they have to.'

Isn't it more than that though? It has to be a cultural difference. I've noticed that Italian families will stick by their own and support and help them no matter what. That isn't the case here - parents will wash their hands of children sometimes when they get to 16.

[CarpeVinum]

Carpe, we pay people more money if they have children. And more money with more children. It is not really surprising we have more children whose parents rely wholy on benefits than Italy.

I agree.

That's why I think a careful non retropective transition to a flat "children" rate makes more sense than a "per child" rate. It makes it more similar to expected income like a wage packet, in the sense that you have to decided how mnay slices you want to cut your staticie into. Which helps limit the growth of resentment from the people who already have a static "pie". So there is more tolerance for gov funded support and the people who need it.

[CarpeVinum]

how many slices you want to cut your static pie into

[niceguy2]

It's not jealousy at all to ask the question "Is this REALLY what we want to spend our taxes on?" Why can't taxpayers be allowed to question what their money is spent upon?

Only a right wing nutcase would support the abolition of the welfare state but what we're talking about here is changing the system to discourage behaviour which we as a society don't want to see. Just in the same way that taxes are used to discourage people from smoking for example.

So we don't want people to have an incentive to keep having kids. We don't want a system which discourages work. Some will no doubt be caught up by these rule changes and that's hard. But you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

[lottieandmia]

Oh and in Italy children live at home, supported by their parents until they get married. Which can be in their late 20s or 30s.

[glam71]

I do have sympathy for her so op yanbu.
Firstly she had the 1st 6 children whilst married to a man who mush have supported her and the children as they had a mortgage. No different to most sahm.
Sadly he than left her high and dry. So he should be blamed.
Also blame the private landlord who is probably coining it in and not maintaining the property.
I also do not buy the we are working to support these benefit scroungers.
Well if you have children you are probably taking more out than you put in.
Take education healthcare tax credits and child benefit for example.
So sad there is so little compassion on this thread.

[burberryqueen]

lol no they don't lottie they come to London and get benefits (ducks)

[CarpeVinum]

Oh and in Italy children live at home, supported by their parents until they get married. Which can be in their late 20s or 30s.

Becuase they have to.

The state will not fund independance and corperations find the tax burden too onerous so don't make a base here like they do elsewhere...so there are fewer job opportunities.

[morethanpotatoprints]

As these families are truly a minority, there would be no point in introducing a cap on number of children. The result would be a few hundred children facing poverty, which wouldn't improve anything. There will always be a minority who see having more dc in terms of £ signs, but they are a minority.
As for this woman, I'm not sure she fits into this category at all, she was married when she conceived 6 of these children.

[Biscuitsareme]

I for one am not jealous of this woman, and I think the discussion has moved on from her now. I'm just intrigued by different countries' different behavioural patterns. Why is the birth rate so low in Italy? It has been for longer than the start of the recession.

And what about other supposed markers of deprivation/ vulnerability such as heavy drinking/ appalling diet/ leaving the house in your PJs . Do poor Italians do this too? Does shit life syndrome manifest itself in different guises in different countries?

[FasterStronger]

So her husband earned enough to fund all 8 of them, without state support? I doubt it!

[Dawndonna]

lol no they don't lottie they come to London and get benefits (ducks)
As if there isn't enough bile on here, you come along with racist shite. Nice.

[CarpeVinum]

lol no they don't lottie they come to London and get benefits (ducks)

That is true to some degree. But I don't think the numbers are as bad as they could be. Most people want to leave to get enough more easily obtain good experience under their belt as they can, in order to return with a CV that makes them better able to compete back home. Where Mamma is

And Mamma sure is pleased when they come home. I know I will be.

Hope mine comes back. With a nice British love interest. So I can make my own tiny British dynasty here in the sun.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Glam71

So well said . I said upthread that the lack of compassion really does scare me for the future society of my dc. I hope the attitude of some parents on here isn't passed onto their dc, or else nobody will care a fig for those worse off than themselves, in the future.
People are already turning into each man for himself attitude, what a horrible attitude, I'm so glad thats not how I or any of my family feel.

[FasterStronger]

Part of my family is southern European (PIGS country) and we come to london to work and are not above cleaning as a job.

[FasterStronger]

Morethan, you dont contribute. I do. Your compassion is just cheap words
my compassion funds the NHS etc. like i said, a medal for me

[morethanpotatoprints]

Biscuit

I think I just moved it back to the original post.

niceguy

Maybe the part of society you mix with feel like this, but I'm glad there are some decent folk left who don't feel like this. Perhaps if and when the cuts materialise you won't be so happy when you hear the stories of the children who are the result of the egg breaking and omelette analogy. Although, maybe you will be pleased to see people suffer, especially those with dc with sn.
Oh, aren't you lovely.

[williaminajetfighter]

morethan I honestly don't think people are jealous but legitimately upset at how the government spends money. There is also a real feeling about lack of parity and unfairness; try and you get nothing, don't try and you get scooped up and looked after.

And yes I would like money to go elsewhere. For one I would like to see a world where the govt wasn't so involved in people's lives with a reduced social services department and overall a much smaller local authority set up. How did we get so much government involvement in our life? A world where we call the council for just about anything is bonkers. So in answer to your question I could come up with a million ways for my tax money to be used. However it is used how it is at the moment...

[eminemmerdale]

this is what is wrong. I just did a benefits calculator - I did it as though both dh and I were out of work, added the money we would get plus the mortgage interest plus the free school meals for two children plus the DLA we get for dd, and it informed me that we would be less than £1000 worse off if we both did nothing instead of working. How can anyone want to try to find a job if this is what being unemployed is about? It's half tempting to take a year off!

[morethanpotatoprints]

Faster.

So I'm not entitled to an opinion? How exactly do you contribute then and how do you know I don't.
Have you ever paid HR tax, corporation tax, capital gains. Do your dc go to school, how much is that per pupil now? Thats quite a bit over 15 years education.

[tethersend]

Reduced social services department? Eh? You said there was a massive strain on them earlier... How will reducing them help?

Or are you hoping for a reduction in the need for social services, williaminajetfighter?

[FasterStronger]

Morethan, yes if you don't mind being hypocritcal. Dp and I paid about 80 k in tax last financial year. So yes we were net contributors. Which is fine. People need life saving treatment. Children need taking into care etc

Its just lazy irresponsible people I don't like getting paid money by the state because it could be better spent.