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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To feel a little sorry for the 7 children benefits Mum.

999 replies

MilgramsLittleHelper · 12/06/2013 11:19

www.itv.com/daybreak/hottopics/benefits-mum/

Is just seems like another bit of benefit bashing to me.

I know she shouldn't have had children she couldn't afford, but what hope of improving her lot???

OP posts:
JakeBullet · 13/06/2013 13:50

Fellatio, I think it was you who asked about a child with SN in a home which is mortgaged and how these families manage without the extra bedroom.

I can only give MY circumstances which meant the home had to be sold as I could not physically manage full time work and DS once he reached a certain age. This meant we could not pay the mortgage Sad.

I was fortunate as the council housed me (on the local sink estate but a roof over my head at least), and then the HA housed me in my current home. I only have one child though but if I had several more then am assuming they would offer up to five bedrooms....if they exist in social housing. The most I have ever seen was two houses knocked together for a big family.

Otherwise if the family can manage the finance to keep their mortgage then yes there are grants etc available. Plus the Family Fund charity who will fund certain things. I am about to apply to them for a Laptop for DS as physically he finds writing difficult, school are going to start using a laptop with him but he could do with one to use for hem work etc.

BeerTricksPotter · 13/06/2013 13:51

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BeauNidle · 13/06/2013 13:52

Dawndonna Thu 13-Jun-13 13:47:17
How many hours a week does she work, Beau?

Err - none??

Or are you talking about the full time child care she provides? Well are you saying that those who work do not look after their children? Excuse me, I just gotta go hunt the invisible nanny in my house. Or perhaps they fend for themselves.

Or perhaps in the real world parents come straight in from work and lhen start work looking after their children until its time they went back to work.

tethersend · 13/06/2013 13:54

What's Beau blathering on about?

I'm trying to catch up.

JakeBullet · 13/06/2013 13:54

I don't think Beau has said that she doesn't care about the children, just simply asked why there ARE seven children.

It IS a lot of children by today's standard family sizes but one of a minority of big families.

These children ARE here though and cannot just be abandoned. They need support to make different choices that's all.

BeerTricksPotter · 13/06/2013 13:56

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BeauNidle · 13/06/2013 13:57

Beer So what do you propose to do personally about these 7 children you care so much about? She is about to lose her home, her children will starve, so come on, you can't stand by and let that happen. Surely you can open your purse and give a bit to her if you feel so strongly?

On the other hand, perhaps not

froubylou · 13/06/2013 13:57

Im the oldest out of 6 children. My mother suffered an abusive relationship for about 17 years as she was too frightened to leave.

She asked for help from every department and organisation in the country over a 10 year period and it took her husband (I refuse to call him my father) walking some 45 miles down trian tracks looking for the Chariots of Fire for anyone to intervene and section him under the mental health act. He was still discharged (despite my mother begging for him not to be) back to the family home.

She could not use hormonal contraception. She had the coil fitted for 5 years but it eventually caused a massive bleed. 3 children were planned, the youngest 3 not and she had no choice at their conception. Its difficult to defend yourself against an abusive partner when you have young children asleep.

Fast forwards 5 years from the birth of my oungest sister and things finally came to a head and she left with us all. For a time, around 2 years I think she was a single mother with 6 children in a council house on benefits. It was the happiest she had been for many years.

She did return to work part time and then full time when the younger children were older.

Out of the 6 of us all of us have made good lives for ourselves. We all have children of our own with loving partners and husbands. We all either work ourselves or are fortunate enough to have partners that can support us whilst we raise our young families. Its not all been a bed of roses for all of us. We have all had our ups and downs and times when a little help was needed.

My mum continues to work full time in her minimum wage job and has done for about 15 years. However menial it is, as she says, its work and I pay my own way.

So there are reasons, valid reasons for people to find themselves in difficult situations. But its not the situation that is the difference between being a 'scrounger' or a 'layabout' or a 'benefits cheat'. Its how you choose to react to those situations and what you achieve in the end that makes the difference.

People are let down by society and the system. People let themselves down. But until you know the full story, until you have walked a mile in someones shoes, don't judge.

One day it could be you relying on others to drag you back up.

Dawndonna · 13/06/2013 13:59

The point being, Mrs Clever CLogs, that one persons tax will make no fucking difference.
Beau Sorry, how do you know that she works no hours, if that is the case, why is she in receipt of carers allowance?
As for your invisible Nanny, you have not mentioned a child with a disability, or are those with disabilities not allowed extra help because the tax payer hasn't got extra help and may just be missing out on something.

BeerTricksPotter · 13/06/2013 13:59

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BeauNidle · 13/06/2013 13:59

Of course I care about any child who is living in poverty. These children are not living in pov by any stretch of the imagination.

They have food, clothing, medicines, education.

Take a look around the world at other countries, then you can talk poverty.

Dawndonna · 13/06/2013 14:00

And Beau, bringing it down to opening your purse is a nonsense argument, so do stop suggesting it.

BeerTricksPotter · 13/06/2013 14:00

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CarpeVinum · 13/06/2013 14:03

The longer I live the more I realize that humans are fundamentally romantic

Yes.

And how you set up your saftey net can either encourage that romanticism, or cause people to minimise it radically.

Britian has a steryotype of being "reserved, cold and logical almost to the point of Mr. Spock-hood" here in Italy.

Whereas Italy cunjours up "romantic" right after "pizza, pasta, mafia".

Yet the sharp contrast in support systems may have had the inintended consequence of rendering the British far more supceptable in increasing numbers to a romanic outlook when creating children, compared to the cold, hard logic typically practised by Italians. (with their low birth rate and low abortion rate, likely due to no expectation of substantial state support when things go bent)

I think that in part is why I am so drawn to this particular debate. Where I am, where I am from, their resepctive sterotypes and the huge contrast between that vision and this massively obvious...anonmoly.

Becuase I think the British and the Italians do conform far more to their sterotypes in other areas. You won't find many unromantical, rational Brits not using car seats given that they have no control over all the pther drivers on the road. Whereas you are hard pressed to find masses of Italians who place importance on the evidence rather than inisit a "mother's arms is alwys the safest place for a baby", and a seriously optimistic belief that their superior reflexes will save thier child from all the millions of dickheads on the road.

And yet when it comes to this debate....it's like they both do a 180 and switch places, which does rather suggest the support systems in place are playing some kind of role in how attitudes are created.

BeauNidle · 13/06/2013 14:08

Beer, that is indeed correct.

And ditto.

CarpeVinum · 13/06/2013 14:09

I am about to apply to them for a Laptop for DS as physically he finds writing difficult

I recently found something that might help with that.

For those on eligible benefits* ? A refurbished PC for £24 or a refurbished laptop for £74, plus broadband and any line rental costs. For those not on eligible benefits ? A refurbished PC for £74 or a refurbished laptop for £104, plus broadband and any line rental costs.

www.go-on.co.uk/news-and-views/latest-news/get-online-home-offer-24-pc-broadband-299/

If you are entitled to the sub, could they cover the contribution ?

BeauNidle · 13/06/2013 14:09

Are we almost at 1000 posts, it's been a good conversation.

williaminajetfighter · 13/06/2013 14:11

The right to reproduce shouldn't be means tested.

Um, no, but it should be gone into with a bit of seriousness and some sense of how DC will be supported for the next 18 years. A lot of people wait to have children until they can afford it or be in a better position to afford it long-term.

Unfortunately your belief which seems to be that having children is a right and everyone should be able to have kids irregardless of their situation - particularly irrespective of their ability to care for or afford their children - is what causes the massive strain on social services.

BeerTricksPotter · 13/06/2013 14:13

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Dawndonna · 13/06/2013 14:14

william just how would being on benefits affect my ability to care for my children and put a strain on social services?

BeerTricksPotter · 13/06/2013 14:18

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williaminajetfighter · 13/06/2013 14:19

Dawn

Um, by social services I meant the government generally. I'm not saying that people who are on benefits are going to have their children taken into care. I'm saying that if people don't try to plan and make responsible decisions about planning for their future and financing children that they can afford, there is more likelihood that they will need support and put pressure on the government. That seems pretty straightforward.

Dawn please tell me that you are not one of the people who go onto threads about benefits JUST to see if any of the posters write something you could find personally offensive and then bark back. It seems a pretty masochistic exercise.

Dawndonna · 13/06/2013 14:21

If we're going for that Beer, let's all grow up a bit and stop having pathetic knee jerk reactions when people suggest that contraception should be available in schools. Close loop holes that allow people to remove children from sex ed lessons for whatever reason, and have a grown up adult discussion about sex with our children from the term they enter school and keep having it until the term they leave. Yep, 5 - 16. Normalise it, that will help.

williaminajetfighter · 13/06/2013 14:22

Beer and Donna,

I can't believe that you cannot see that it might be SENSIBLE for people to think about finances before having children. I am not suggesting sterilisation for the poor FFS. But it's fairly common sense that if you're not working, have no prospects or no money then having a child AT THAT MOMENT probably isn't a wise thing to do.

I can't believe these sort of basic tenets, like that of planning or financial responsibility which were impressed upon us by our parents, are now considered somewhat fascist!

la la la la la people! have I missed the turn off to fantasy land?