To think that parents should educate their children about animals?

[Alisvolatpropiis]

In this case I refer to dogs.

Today I spent the afternoon at a friends. She has two young and lovely children. It was her birthday,various friends and their children were also present. I took along my very small Jack Russell,she's very sweet natured. Before I get jumped on - I am always very careful about introducing her to children,both dogs and children are unpredictable. So of course she was on her lead.

A family arrived the same time I did with three children in tow. One of the children showed an obvious aversion straight away, so I made sure she wasn't near him. The mum said "don't worry X, the dog is on it's lead". That's fine.

However everybody was in the garden and she deliberately sat her children as far away as possible. The three children were all obviously very nervous about the dog. Another mum commented that the three of them had never had much contact with dogs before. Of course my dog was on her lead, I had already noticed the children's discomfort.

But other children were petting her and enjoying it. She is ideal child size in terms of dogs. Am I being unreasonable to think that an opportunity was missed to introduce these children to what is a very common house pet in the UK?

I appreciate that some children/adults are simply frightened of dogs. It's a phobia for some on the same way spiders are for me. Or have had a terrible experience which has left them frightened.

But surely showing children how to behave around animals is a positive thing? The two things I was taught as a child about dogs were 1) don't touch unless invited 2) if a dog runs towards you - stand still. Training is obviously an absolute imperative if one is to a responsible dog owner. I just think educating children is also important.

But you were judging the mum,no matter what you say.

I don't much like dogs. I got bitten by one badly as a child and while i am not afraid of them, i just don't much enjoy being around them. I get really tired of dog owners expecting people to love their dog as much as they do.

I know you weren't judging alis. I do think there was a potential difference of opinion. Your "missed opportunity"may have been her "avoided meltdown". I don't think there are really any right or wrong answers when it comes to other people's children. Only the parents know how the children would have responded. Maybe they are trying to deal with the nervousness, but felt a party wasn't the right place. Imagine the pressure on the child.

It sounds to me like mum tried to allay the child's fear by saying "don't worry" etc. Maybe that didn't work.

It is sad, and I for one, would have preferred to spend my childhood without being a wreck when visiting family with dogs, but unfortunately nothing was going to help with my fear. My poor frustrated family did try!

micro I don't assume that. As I have said umpteen times. I err on the side of caution.

No I am not judging her. I can have a thought about something without judging the people involved.

When it comes down to it, being taught about dogs is really about how to not get hurt by someone else's pet. And how to keep the owner of the pet happy by saying and doing the rights things so as not to upset the pet.

"oh Tiddles gets so over excited. Just everyone stand very still and you will be ok"

"Sorry about that. He hardly ever shits on the carpet. It's because your kids are making so much noise"

We don't need to train ourselves to be safe with dogs . That's completely the owners problem. If they have a dogs which is tricky with untrained people then they can keep it out of sight or get a budgie instead.

If someone wants a hobby and thinks a pet will do then that is fine. But if I collected stamps I wouldn't be suggesting that other people's kids should be taught respect for stamps. If I liked archery I wouldn't expect all kids everywhere to be given lessons in how to duck if I shoot an arrow by mistake.

Personally, I take every oportunity to get the children used to dogs. DD is nervous (the two dogs she likes and knows most are very barky). Unfortunately, she has a complex love/fear thing going on. She wants so desperatey to like them, but she has all those 'danger!' instincts swamping her each time.

So far, she asks every single person if she can pet their dog, and takes their answer on board. She'll carefully put her hand flat and face up so the dog can sniff her to find out about her.

Then it all goes to pot, as the dog will approach, and she'll suddenly feel the fear, and start pulling her hands away and jumping up and down.

We're getting there, but it's taking time.

This really isn't uncommon from what I've seen, and it really does need to be the parents, who know the child best, to decide how and when exposure happens. I would have taken the opportunity to ask you if my children could say hello. On the other hand, if DD, was having a bad day or asked not to, then I wouldn't.

So just to say, I hope you continue wanting to make children comfortable around your dog. It's helpful for those of us who need slow exposure.

Plus, it beats the heck out of my Nan and her little darling; a rescue dog who can be very jealous, snappish and is regularly upset when on its lead, which would all be fine, but she insists on bringing her to every sodding family party. Poor thing is restrained and surrounded by lots of people with their stamping feet. Every time, I think it's an accident waiting to happen, but she just won't leave her alone for even an hour.

if it was on a list of what parents should teach their children, for me it would come just below tying shoelaces.

parents should teach their childrn lots of things, this one isn't important

I think children should learn about dogs, but maybe not learning the things you think.

I see too many children run up to dogs which they don't know are friendly and behave in inappropriate ways.

I was in the park on Friday and a tiny girl (@ 18 months) came up to my friend's, luckily elderly and very placid dog, and kick it! The girl's parents got quite snippy when my friend suggested that the next dog she kicked might bite her. She left us to toddle over to another dog and kick it. Her luck will run out pretty soon if her parents don't take action.

My childhood dog was a cocker spaniel. For some reason, it hated children. We would try to keep it well away, but too often parents would encourage their children to come and pat it without asking us.

My children have been taught that they may only approach or pat dogs when invited to by the owner. This is what I think all children should be taught. But I do not think, as you seem to, that the patting or approaching bit is compulsory!

No I don't think that Medusa

It was merely X scenario made me think about YZ scenarios. For what it's worth I agree with you actually.

I meant children could be taught how to behave around dogs. That's behave not necessarily touch.

Right, then we agree.

Yes, I think children should be taught how to behave around dogs. I have two children who are instinctively nervous of dogs and we have taken opportunities to introduce them gently.

BUT - you have no idea just how nervous the child in question was. Perhaps sitting in the same garden as a dog and watching it from a distance was an achievement in itself.

And I agree with others that Jack Russells are not necessarily "ideal child size" dogs. The first dog that ever bit me was a Jack Russell and they are known for being a bit snappy. I would have to know and trust the owner very well before assuming that a Jack Russell was a good type of dog to introduce my nervous child to.

I've had several dogs throughout my life. The only one that I had to have re-homed (via the Dogs Trust) was a tiny Jack Russell. He was extremely cute, very clever, well trained, loved adults and teenagers, but he hated small children. My next door neighbour had two yorkies who were vicious little buggers. Small dogs aren't always the best with children.

Anyway, YABU. It shouldn't be necessary for parents to introduce dogs to their children if they don't want to do so. It's actually the responsibility of dog owners to make sure their animal is walked in a safe manner and really, in my opinion, should keep their animal on a lead when in any public area. There shouldn't be occasions when dogs are out of control and are running up to children or adults.

It shouldn't be no,but we all know there are arsehole dog owners who take zero responsibility for their dog. There are also children who want to pet dogs but it ends up being more like the dog being hit around the head. Not maliciously,just through lack of knowledge.

I'm not really interested in turning this in to a breed debate. My dog is sweet natured and happens to be a Jack Russell. I only mentioned that straight off because I presumed I would be asked if I didn't.

The ironic thing being is when you are scared of or fear dogs, they are then far more interested in you, as your behaviour means they have to be alert to negative interaction from you.

The more someone has a negative reaction to a dog, the more the dog then has to focus on that person, to minimise the incoming reaction,

If a human for example, pulls their hands up together towards their face, and elbows inwards in front of them then leans back,(the classic pose pulled by a child or adult who dislike an approaching dog), the dog has a set response to this, immediately the dog reads a human behaving in defence, when a dog reads defence, it has to engage in order, to establish if the person is a threat, and what kind of threat the person is,

We do free dog confidence classes here, there is a big demand as a lot of city people move here, and after a few years of trying to avoid dogs, they realise they are the ones that will have to adjust.

We adjust body language, teach K9 control, and help people adult and child to get to a place where dogs are not an issue for them.

If you are frightened of dogs they are going to focus on you, because you are the most unpredictable thing in the area. It is simple to fix, you just have to really want to tackle the problem, and take advice.

The reality is we will always have dogs around us, either you learn some simple K9, or spend the rest of your life anxiously working around it.

Trinity: I'm kind of saddened by not being able to automatically trust dog owners tbh, but having had so many issues dealing with a child who is terrified and owners who are well meaning but ignorant, and those who just don't bother to try control their dogs, it's made it my default option.

I do still allow my 7yo's siblings to approach owners and I'll chat to the owners but my first reaction is that none are 'safe' until I've spoken to them and sussed them out myself, iyswim?

I have also spent 18 months 'training' the siblings not to charge up to dogs! Unfortunately, the dog incident on Thursday seems to have undone some of that and now the 5yo shrieks "I'm scared of dogs!" whilst the 8yo pats the dog and then runs and shrieks in a playful manner. So it's back to square bloody one again now thanks to one idiot owner who decided to take three dogs for a walk without leads and couldn't control one of them

OP "I was referring more to children who have just not had much experience so are wary (understandably) but not frightened in any way." The point I am trying to make is that you don't know what their experience with dogs is unless you talk to them, not other people, about it!

What a shame you spoiled it for those e children by taking your dog.Did the hostess not tell you there were children going who are scared of dogs ?

xylem8 nope,she asked me to bring the dog because her dd wanted to meet her.

The other children were not bothered once established the dog was on her lead.

Confused I didn't ask anybody,another adult at the party merely passed comment. I am not inclined to march up to people and ask them why their child was concerned about the dog being on it's lead.

As I said, this thread was more X scenario made me think about YZ scenarios.

OP was invited to bring her dog to the party. She is right that many children who are uncertain are not taught how of react near dogs. Best advice: turn your back on the dog, stand still and do NOT flap your hands or shriek. The dog will find you boring and find something else interesting.

However when you take your dog anywhere you are responsible not to cause distress to others, even if it seems unreasonable. I think I would have introduced my dog to the children who wanted to play with it but removed the dog when the other children were showing signs of distress or at least asked their mum if she would like you do so.

A party could be quite a stressful atmosphere for the dog, a lot of stimuli to react to. I would be careful not to overexcite the dog. JRTs are not the most laid back of dogs.

oldandcrabby that's exactly what I did. I am always mindful of how other people are reacting to her and adjust accordingly, erring on the side of caution if you will.

Slightly off topic - Reading about people's experiences with jrt's on this thread I am starting to wonder if mine is crossed with something (I got her from the local dogs home at 8 weeks) purely because whilst she has boundless engergy,she doesn't fit with highly strung stereotype.

Alis, we had a JRT X Corgi a few years ago and she was the kindest, sweetest, most loving dog ever. We took her on when she was 2 years old and DD was just approaching 1. We joke that she taught DD how to crawl and walk because she just wouldn't be without her. She even used to sleep under DDs cot and later under her bed. DD was distraught when we lost her. She was the best dog ever.

My Sis has a pure JRT who again is soft and lovely. She is 9 now but hasnt slowed down one bit. We look after her when my sis goes away and she sleeps with DD, lets DD dress her up and would eat her body weight in sausages if we let her!

Again, as ever, it's DEED not BREED. Generalisation is bollocks, dogs are a product of their owners, a decent owner will have a decent dog.

Misbehaving dogs are a real bugbear of mine, and I'm with BackOnlyBriefly all the way - it is the owners responsibility to train their dogs appropriately.
My DS1 is also scared of dogs, because of an incident that involved a Labrador running towards him and circling him, so easily preventable!

YABVU

Dog lovers are often completely unable to see the point of view of non dog lovers which the OP is amply illustrating by continuing to argue like the hind leg of a donkey dog.

Yes I do agree in some respects that children be taught how to behave in front of dogs, ie asking the owner, the correct way to approach them, the best way to pet, the signs that a dog does not want to be approached, which I think very important.

Dog owners should also learn how to respect a persons wishes not to have a dog rush up to them or misbehave. It also isnt compulsory for people to like dogs or have to overcome that fear if they dont want to

DS is 2 and I want him to be comfortable and sensible around dogs. We have no pets at present, but may in the future. There are pets in extended family that we see intermittently.

We live near a park and woods so often encounter loose dogs when we're out and about. He has a natural reserve about dogs coming up, but by my example of a calm manner and where appropriate, letting him touch and pet a dog, that reservation is gradually developing towards confidence. If I was to panic and make a point of avoiding approaching dogs, that would encourage a fear reaction. Love them or loathe them, dogs are around, and I'd rather do what I can to encourage my children to have a positive relationship with animals.

YABU and I couldn't give a hoot what breed it is or what it's nature is or that it was on a lead, sorry but your dog is boring!! Perhaps they were enjoying the party and weren't interested in your dog, so it just didn't occur to the mother to use the party as a 'learning about dogs opportunity?

Maybe the mother would prefer to introduce her children to dogs in her own time, not when you decide she should.