To be sad at the amount of horrible parents out there (not a happy thread)

[Doubtfuldaphne]

In town shopping today I was behind one lady who told her dd to 'stop waving your toy around or the ladies in the shop will smack you'
And I held a lift for a lady to come in with her toddler and baby. The toddler instantly sat on the lift floor and looked scared. She said 'sorry mummy'' and the mum shouted 'I don't care of you are' aggressively. The 2-3 yr old was covered in bruises mostly on her face and arm and Very very thin.
I can't stop thinking about it. There's nothing I could've done, don't know who she is, or what their story is - I just know that here's no way I would treat my children aggressively or with anything but love! Yes, I can lose my temper after a hard day but wouldnt be aggresive. something about this situation has really played on my mind and I feel sad.
There's nothing I could've done though is there?

Excuse me awful grammar.

Oh my gosh, I've turned into a cockney now.

I agree with others who say you can tell the difference between probable abusive set ups and cross exchanges. The utter disbelief that abuse exists on MN is very perplexing.

Abuse towards children is downplayed all the time on here. If similar anecdotes were told about adults people would've asked whether the police were involved. This attitude is reflected in the boastful remarks about shouting at children and competitive benign neglect. The only right reaction to either of those occurrances in my opinion should be shame and a need to improve my shit parenting skills.

YANBU.

I agree completely with Mumsy. You can normally tell the difference between a mum who is just at the end of her tether and one who is abusive.

I remember once being at a swimming class with DD, who was about 3, and one of the other mums had two small kids with her. One of the children stood under the shower, had her hair shampooed, and then refused to have it rinsed off. Her mum lost it big time, got really shouty and enraged. But - and this is the point - you could see she'd just had enough. I knew exactly how she felt because I'd felt like that so many times. But she wasn't abusive. And the next week the poor woman apologised to everyone for having lost it.

How's your son getting on Holly? You know, the one who called a harassed pregnant woman struggling to fold her buggy on a bus "fat" then hid. You must remember, you were so terribly proud of him.
Cheap dig IsThisAGoodIdea! Don't bring stuff from other threads to score points.

corona makes the point I was going to.

Even if there is no physical abuse, shouting and swearing aggressively at children is only teaching them that this is an acceptable way to treat others, as well as giving them an expectation of how they will be treated. It will be hard to shake this lesson as they become adults.

If they use that kind of behaviour in public how are they talking to them behind closed doors.

I wouldn't worry about Holly. She's notorious for posting things like this.

As many have said, there wasn't really anything to be done, it's a horrible situation and there's a massive difference between a parent disciplining a child and a child cowering and apologising from open aggression.

My 3 year old is absolutely covered in bruises. He is not neglected or abused.

He is a power ranger. Who am i to argue?

I was out the other evening on the seafront and there was a group of noisy adults, drinking, with a 3 year old, they put him on an adult's bike.

as a family we were all concerned, and I thought about calling the police, but relaly, what would the police do? arrest them for being drunk in charge of a minor?
I don't know

my mind was in overdrive. about the poor little boy and his home life. he needed a responsible adult and didn't have one, in my opinion

I'm sure you saw two abused and neglected children today. But if you really thought that, knowing CCTV is everywhere, you would report to SS, who could pull the tapes, track the individuals through the shopping centre, get the car regs and have the children taken into care.

Holly It's Social Services, not fucking CSI Miami.

haven't read the whole thread but just to add, i have an extremely skinny 3yo cos he had long term illness. I do aggressively shout him sometimes, when i've put up with several hours of being hit and kicked cos he is in a bad mood or not feeling well and won't stop after being asked.

He doesn't look ill. He's extremely active, but just very small and very skinny. He doesn't have alot of bruises from falling over, but I have seen other kids who have loads of bruises from running around and falling over and been quite shocked, but then deduced that maybe they just fall over more or bruise more easily.

But can also understand your concern, and sadness if you suspected abuse.

Ss threshold is so high in some areas due to budget cuts that is bit an indicator as to whether something is worth reporting or not.

Reporting does not mean social work swoop in and take the kids away, it doesn't even mean they'll visit or take the case on. But if you register a concern, then the nursery calls, then a concerned neighbour and then the gp, you've got a case.

Do not make judgements your not in a position to make, share your concerns with someone that is. Let them make the decision.

Do the thresholds vary in different areas?

Threshold is perceptive. There isn't a set level before anyone does anything. Some areas have larger early intervention provision, more parenting support - more of the less high tariff work, where families can be supported in making better choices.

Other areas don't have the money for all that and their statutory social work will only have the room to work with cases already at risk, where the kids are on the register or at risk. Basically not getting on their until things are really bad. Which is shit because the early work is so valuable and preventative but more and more work is reactive now due to constraints.

Here's a question for you all. My next door neighbours have two children under 3. Although I don't know them well, I work at home a lot and hear them through the partition. I hear then shouting at one of the two children - not the other - numerous times a day.

Not just "stop that" style shouting, but lengthy shouting fits "stop crying stop crying" to a child who is completely hysterical and "only bad and spoilt children cry. So you are bad and spoiled. I bet I took the wrong baby home from the hospital. I bet I can get you sent back".

The thing is, I know that parents can snap. But five or six times a day, ten minutes or more each time? I have wondered about getting them reported - because maybe social services could help with eg parenting classes or similar. Is this naive?

It's so interesting how threads like this always get the "YOU ONLY SAW A SNAPSHOT! STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS! YOU'RE SO JUDGMENTAL! IF YOU WERE SO CONCERNED WHY DIDN'T YOU BEFRIEND THIS POOR MUM WHO WAS CLEARLY JUST HAVING A BAD DAY!!!!" response.

And threads about children being beaten and starved to death by their parents always get the "OH MY GOD WHY DIDN'T ANYONE DO ANYTHING?? EVERYONE WHO EVER ENCOUNTERED THIS CHILD HAS BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS!!!!" response.

For what it's worth, sometimes, when a parent looks like a hostile, aggressive cunt, it's because that is exactly what they are. I'm not saying there's anything anyone can do about it. I'm just saying that sometimes, it's not "just a bad day." It's every day.

So hopinkette what would you do in my situation when you hear what sounds like horrible parenting everyday but it isn't exactly the worst, nastiest or most horrible imaginable?

I honestly don't know. I think I would maybe approach social services? I don't know. I'd also find it extremely upsetting though. I do think that what you've described is pretty bad though. It's emotional abuse.

I think the difficulty of these snapshot insights is that you get enough information to be worried (and even feel stressed yourself) but not enough to have anything to do anything about- in this instance, a 30 second glimpse of a child/parental interaction which was not illegal or even provably neglectful, just very upsetting. You don't know the parent, you don't know the child, but they stay in your head afterwards. I still remember being a teenager back in the 80's and seeing a dad terrorize his child on the seafront, screaming and shouting at her, and following them trying to make it obvious they were being seen but being too scared/unsure what to do. I can remember this over 20 years later.

In dancing's case it is a more realistic possibility to report. I might be tempted that sounds like an awful lot of shouting. Although another case I can't get out of my head was that lady who was convicted of racially abusing her own children (and destroying her neighbour's peace of mind) and they were still with her:( I fear that with all the budget cuts all but the most severe forms of neglect/abuse are being acted on but perhaps it's better to call and state your concerns. What do the sw on the thread think?

You are not being naive at all, sounds awful.

Helplines like the NSPCC or Parentline (in Scotland) are a great way of talking through your concerns and getting information about who to report to.

Just to answer questions,

"as a family we were all concerned, and I thought about calling the police, but relaly, what would the police do? arrest them for being drunk in charge of a minor?"

The police would check if the child was at any risk, usually by deciding how drunk the adults are, then would ask for a safe relative/friend that the child could be taken to. Then a follow up visit would happen and would add evidence if thre were already concerns registered.

"The thing is, I know that parents can snap. But five or six times a day, ten minutes or more each time? I have wondered about getting them reported - because maybe social services could help with eg parenting classes or similar. Is this naive?"

No, it isn't, children can be a "scapegoat" in a family, whilst many on here will try to tell you that SS will not respond, the chances are that a school/nursery etc may already be expressing concerns and your report will trigger an investigation.

"Ss threshold is so high in some areas due to budget cuts that is bit an indicator as to whether something is worth reporting or not"

Whether a case meets the threasehold, is decided after investigation and there are many other ways of implementing and running a CAF/CIN than just through SS so always report.

This is why Child Abuse/Neglect carries on and gets to the level of children living in dire conditions, because it is ignored by all and by the time SS get involved, an strong attachment is formed to the parent.
This is why the child has to remain in the family, living with a level of Neglect/Abuse, because to remove them would cause more ED than leaving them there.

Even if a parent is having a bad day, there is nothing wrong with someone pulling them upon their behaviour towards their children.

What can start out as "having a bad day" can soon become a normal way of communicating and behaving. I have been guilty of that, after my DH died, i snapped at everyone, it wouldn't have been doing me or my children any good, if it had been allowed to continue.

it is upsetting to see a distressed child,yes it stays with you
hug your kids close,really close and never be that scary figure to them.ever
if you can donate any monies to nspcc do,or help out as volunteer when able

"I fear that with all the budget cuts all but the most severe forms of neglect/abuse are being acted on"

It isn't all about budgets, SW know what Foster Care is available and the poor outcomes for children in care. When a case is taken to court the judge asks for SS to justify a care order.

Everything is weighed up. Removing a child from a family (not just the parents, the child loses extended family), cause Emotional Damage, disrupts education etc, many are better being left in not to ideal conditions, if they are over 7.