To be sad at the amount of horrible parents out there (not a happy thread)

[Doubtfuldaphne]

In town shopping today I was behind one lady who told her dd to 'stop waving your toy around or the ladies in the shop will smack you'
And I held a lift for a lady to come in with her toddler and baby. The toddler instantly sat on the lift floor and looked scared. She said 'sorry mummy'' and the mum shouted 'I don't care of you are' aggressively. The 2-3 yr old was covered in bruises mostly on her face and arm and Very very thin.
I can't stop thinking about it. There's nothing I could've done, don't know who she is, or what their story is - I just know that here's no way I would treat my children aggressively or with anything but love! Yes, I can lose my temper after a hard day but wouldnt be aggresive. something about this situation has really played on my mind and I feel sad.
There's nothing I could've done though is there?

[HeffalumpTheFlump]

Of course there is a huge difference between a parent frustratedly snapping at a child to what the OP is describing. I really do wonder if the 'don't judge' brigade have gone too far on here, and how many of them would really ask that parent if they needed help like they so often insist others should do.

IMO there is no excuse whatsoever for a child cowering from or looking scared of their parent.

[CheckpointCharlie]

That doesn't sound right to me OP, have pm'd you. Good on you.

[ElBombero]

I agree WTF was she supposed to do to offer help. We all see kids being shouted at and I agree with other posters that this is normal. But you just know, you can sense, when its more than shouting. When a child's neglected, the aggression coming fr these fuckwit parents. I hate it, it totally breaks my heart. Poor poor babies, they must be so confused.

[MadameDefarge]

well holly, can't quite see how the OP could offer benign intervention in a lift. but good on you.

I also do the same. But it does not mean that there are not mean parents who treat their children badly in public. And to pour cold water on the OP is to tell us all to mind our own business and let it go on.

[Doubtfuldaphne]

Holly, I held the lift open for her and smiled. She blanked me. We weren't going to a car we were going to another floor in a shop. I think intervening can come across as patronising to some types especially if I'm just standing in a lift with her. She would probably have told me to piss off for sticking my nose in.
If I saw someone struggling obviously I would help

[MadameDefarge]

But it does hurt and it is upsetting especially when you don't have the chance to intervene in a benign and non aggressive way that will be accepted.

Times out of mind I have offered benign help to be told to fuck off.

Times out of mind I have had my offers of help and understanding accepted.

[ElBombero]

Inneedbrandy bruises on legs knees lower arms are normal. Not normal when a face n upper arms are bruised

[Mumsyblouse]

Sometimes, unfortunately, you do get a glimpse into a really horrible unhappy experience of childhood. I have seen so many crying toddlers, tantrums in the street, bruised knees, this is normal everyday stuff, but only a few in combination with a very aggressive parent and almost pleading/passive/scared child bring you up short like that. It is sad, OP.

[ElBombero]

Holly "pick the little one up n ill help you to car" haha

[maddening]

Yes holly - we cross posted obviously - your solution is great it you are on your own and assertive enough to offer help to someone coming across as quite aggressive - and it could be going beyond a mum who has just had a hard day and in need of a hand - only the op could judge that.

Additionally if you are there with your own dc it makes the offering of carrying an extra child not possible and in an aggressive situation your first priority is your dc's safety.

Agree with kims post.

[Doubtfuldaphne]

I think madamedefarge has summed it all up perfectly.
I'm going to bed!

[HollyBerryBush]

Some of us are a little older and a little more proactive - rather than passing on our own shitty experiences at the hands of others.

With that ladies, I'm off to bed - I'm sure this will run to 16 pages of anecdotal 'guess what I saw today'.

Yes op - as it makes the tread feel warm and fluffy, just for you, I'm sure you saw two abused and neglected children today. But if you really thought that, knowing CCTV is everywhere, you would report to SS, who could pull the tapes, track the individuals through the shopping centre, get the car regs and have the children taken into care.

[theoriginalandbestrookie]

I don't know why the OP is getting such a pasting, I really don't. It's horrible to see a child who is clearly not being treated well and as MadameDefarge says, you can tell when things aren't right.

I had a similar experience in Primark, went in to get some summer stuff for DS and heard this woman shouting iand swearing in the face of her toddler who was in a buggy. Lord knows what he could have done to deserve such a telling off, he was well strapped in. Was she having a bad day/at the end of her tether/needing some support - I don't know, all I know is that in my world there is no excuse for shouting at a toddler like that.

Could I have done anything - well if I had I probably would have ended up being assalted, so no I don't think so, and sadly NSPCC probably isn't that interested in calls about people shouting at their children. Doesn't make it any less sad.

[MadameDefarge]

ooh holly, you get the passive aggressive retreat of the night award...

[ouryve]

DS1 is active and clumsy and always covered in bruises - on his legs and lower arms, mostly, occasionally on his back, if he's thrown himself on the floor in meltdown, rarely on his noggin because he's clattered his head reaching for lego under a table. Never on his face.

[HeffalumpTheFlump]

Hollyberry - what on earth has age got to do with it?? Wow you have a seriously superior attitude.

[MadameDefarge]

And I am sure I am good deal older than you...and funnily enough still get riled at children being abused in public.

As for the tracking down of random kids being shouted at by parents CCTV to SS route...you having a laugh?

[StuntGirl]

Oh give over Holly, you know full well that social services will do naff all about a call regarding an unknown woman shouting at a child in a shop.

[MadameDefarge]

I think Holly is saying that we should not post about these things on MN...interesting viewpoint.

Holly, any tips as to where we CAN post about our sadness at witnessing public abuse of children without being told we are being hysterical and judgey?

Oh, forgot, you are off to sleep the sleep of the, er, old, and, in your view, measured responders.

[Mumsyblouse]

I think MN is exactly the right place for coming when you see something upsetting but feel powerless about it and just want to say that. I don't think it's always possible to intervene, and given that you have little evidence, not always appropriate but that doesn't mean you don't get that cold jolt yourself when you see a child treated like that and wonder what their home life is like.

I'm a smiley person too and often make sympathetic remarks if someone's having a hard time with a difficult toddler (like lying down on the way to school!) but there's something about these scary parents/interactions that stops you doing that because probably you correctly intuit they are aggressive and they won't appreciate your intervention. Different if you know who they are or see something illegal (very hard smack)- the OP didn't and correctly went on her way whilst quite disturbed about what a two year old could have done to provoke open hatred in public.

[PurpleBlossom]

Hi OP.

Yes it is awful, but there was nothing you could have done.

I was once in a similar position to you once and said child ended up in my class a few years later. I didn't even recognise him, just the parent.

So maybe your paths will cross again, who knows.

[Devora]

I'm as old as the ark, and very proactive, and I think you are being ridiculous, Holly. How many more examples do we need of what happens when everyone turns a blind eye to suffering children, thinking we can't know for sure, we don't have enough proof, maybe there's a reasonable explanation...?

And if you really think that reporting suspicions (without proof) to social services about an unknown and unnamed child would get them pulling CCTV tapes and checking car registrations, then you are living in a far less troubled city than I am.

Often, sadly, we witness a clearly bad situation and there is nothing we can do. Sometimes it helps to talk to others and get our concerns affirmed. That won't actually help that particular child. But ridiculing posters who raise these concerns can actually lead to larger numbers of people being reluctant to raise their concerns, and therefore to more harmed children.

[Raaraathenoisybaby]

If it was a shopping centre you could contact the security folk and see if there is CCTV and see if they would submit it to ss. Though there is no sound I think.
I was musing on the polish boy thread about whether as a society we are crap at challenging child abide within communities. If I see something going on with a child I think is wrong and I say something to the mum and she shouts at me? I can live with that. Maybe it would make the mother feel self conscious. In a good way.

I remember once making comments to a friend about a young mum yelling at her toddler and losing her rag in a clothes shop. My lovely friend went up to her and started a conversation about how challenging toddlers were. They ended sitting together for ages and the mum calmed right down and relaxed.
I think it's worth remembering that some abuse is cold and calculated but some is a product of struggling to cope, isolation and poor support