To think getting pregnant "accidentally" is not ok

[Buddhagirl]

Conversion with a gf yesterday along the lines of:

Me: i really want to start ttc I wish dh would agree to start sooner
Her: just come off contraception and don't tell him, you will both love the baby and make it work
Me: isn't that unfair and a bit immoral?
Her: loads of people do it, what's the worst that could happen?

I do wonder how many "accidents" are really accidents. I can see how women would want to do this and I'm sure most do cope and it's ok, but surely it's really unfair?

On the face of things this might seem wrong. But generally, if one person wants to have children and the other doesn't and is adamant they don't want a child the relationship will eventually break down - it's a deal breaker.

The cases I have known where this happened (the couple split) - the woman did not want a child and the man did. Obviously, the woman is more in control of her fertility (except in the case of accidents). But where it was the other way round and the woman eventually conceived, in many cases they stayed together.

So a woman who gets pregnant 'accidentally on purpose' may be wrong technically and is taking a huge risk. But it may just save the relationship in the long term iyswim.

'I don't know how all these things work financially, but IMO it should be up to the woman to foot the bill (failing that, I suppose, the taxpayer).'

No, I do not agree with this at all. If the woman gets pregnant the man is just as responsible for the outcome. He knows how babies are made and if he wants to be sure one is not made he should abstain from sex or use a condom.

So a woman who gets pregnant 'accidentally on purpose' may be wrong technically and is taking a huge risk. But it may just save the relationship in the long term iyswim.

That's a hell of a risk to be taking with three lives, two of them who don't have a choice.

It's not the be all and end all for a relationship to survive. Sometimes it's better that they don't.

If the woman gets pregnant the man is just as responsible for the outcome. He knows how babies are made and if he wants to be sure one is not made he should abstain from sex or use a condom.

That is utterly ridiculous. The man is NOT just as responsible as the woman if she stops taking the pill without telling him. In this case SHE is completely responsible. Why is that so hard for some people to get their heads round? If men in long term relationships have to wear condoms to protect against pregnancy then WTF is the point in taking the pill???

Yes, he knows how babies are made. Presumably he also knows what the contraceptive pill is for.

I don't know how all these things work financially, but IMO it should be up to the woman to foot the bill (failing that, I suppose, the taxpayer).

If a woman consciously deceives a partner that has made it clear they do not want a child and purposely gets pregnant by lying about been on contraception then yes the woman should foot the bill.

But I see that as yet another reason NOT to go for "behind back cessastion of birth control" rather than an argument to support it. Because of the higher risk for the child to be abandoned emotionally, phycially and economically.

Again well said... It's the kids that suffer and women should consider these consequences before lying and getting pregnant under false pretence, and then crying "dead beat dad" after the fact.

So a woman who gets pregnant 'accidentally on purpose' may be wrong technically and is taking a huge risk. But it may just save the relationship in the long term iyswim.

What kind of person uses a child as a chip in a game of roulette ?

The sort who will end up using them as a pawn if the gamble doesn't pay off perhaps ?

Children's needs before parental wants.

And children need parents to be risk adverse regarding their conception so they don't end up at the wrong end of an unlevel playing field from the onset.

What they don't need is parents thinking "I want one now regardless of all the additional risk factors that the child will end up emotionally, phycially or econonically disadvantaged by a relationship collapse, so come on baby, come be a sticking plaster and see if you can make this realtionship a bit tackier than it already is"

It's a person. A small person admittedly, but a person. Not an elastoplast who can go in the bin "no harm done" if the glue isn't sticky enough.

Children shouldn't be tasked with saving relationships. That is supposed to be the adults' job.

Fathers should support any children they produce. Even when they were dishonestly and deliberatly lured into a false sense of security regarding contraception being used appropriatly.

Cos it's not the kid's fault. Of the three people involved, they are the only one who had absolutly no choices at all.

And with a mother who would do something so flagrantly dishonest and risky in terms of outcomes of a child, the poor kid is going to need every bit of help it can get. Becuase the primary caregiver has already proved her priorities have something of a "mum's wants, before kid's needs" leaning.

I can't believe some of the comments on here.

If a woman gets pregnant by deliberately deceiving the man, she is a manipulative, selfish fool. There is no justifcation for it.

HOWEVER, regardless of what she's done, once a child is the result of that deception the child (NOT the mother) deserves the support of BOTH its parents.

If it's your genetic material, it's your responsibility. Unless you can 100% say your sperm will never meet an egg because of your actions you are responsible.

If "she got pregnant by deceiving me" was allowed as a reason to not pay child support, do we think that there would be a significantly higher proportion of women who actually did it, or of men who claimed that's what they did?

I think it's wrong to have an accidental on purpose pregancy and can really put the relationship on the wrong footing.

Having said that, I think there's a moral difference between:

• person has made it clear he doesn't want children / another child at all
• person is ambivalent so not committed to actually trying
• no-one has made any firm comments of children or contraceptives (irresponsible IMO, but no-one is tricking anyone)

I'm in camp 2 and am also ambivalent. We've had the discussion about what happens if and he has accepted the risks (I am on the mini-pill). To me, if contraception isn't pretty close to 100% / two types used, then a couple ought to have the discussion about what would happen in the event of pregnancy.

I also do think there's a moral difference to be frank between a man sabotaging contraception to get a woman pregnant and a woman doing likewise. It must surely be recognised that the pregnancy itself carries risks for a woman that isn't there for a man.

If "she got pregnant by deceiving me" was allowed as a reason to not pay child support, do we think that there would be a significantly higher proportion of women who actually did it, or of men who claimed that's what they did?

Well that is a good point and it would be extremely difficult to sort out all the mess. Perhaps we should have a system where women have to be administered the pill like children, just because a few of us are so completely unable to functional as sensible adults.

The minute you decide that using contraception is a "get out of jail card" for avoiding the responsibility of any consequences (i.e. a child) all you do is encourage people to make excuses. Contraception is a minimiser and it is not 100-per-cent foolproof. And since women are the only ones who end up pregnant and therefore always have to deal with the consequences (whether that's choosing abortion or continuing with the pregnancy - both of which carry risk to physical and mental health), saying "but I used contraception so therefore it's not my fault; she must have tricked me" simply allows men to walk away with no backward glance - as indeed many do already and have done throughout history.

Perhaps we should have a system where no one has sex unless they want to make a baby with someone.

Since that's unlikely in this world let's just have a situation where we encourage the sensible use of contraception and make parents step up to look after the needs of their child regardless of the circumstances of their conception.

We seem to be talking about women being deceptive, but what about the menz?

Don't some, probably as many women who are lie, say what they want, to get what they want? 'if you get pregnant, I'll support you, whatever you decide etc. to get a shag?

Isn't the point people can lie and we should all use contraception that we control until both want sex to result in a child?

Shall we also tape oven gloves to everyone's hands because some people are pickpockets?

I am not saying that it's right but I think that is the thinking behind it for some people - it's a very risky and manipulative strategy I agree. I still stand by my point that it takes 2 people to make a baby and the responsibility of both parents.

For a couple in a LTR it should be easy for the man to keep track of whether his DW/DP is actually taking the pill or not. If there's room for doubt he can use a condom.

Isn't the point people can lie and we should all use contraception that we control until both want sex to result in a child

Abso.fucking.lutley.

Even from the perspective of the small but real chance of contraceptive failue, belt and braces ought to be viewed as the norm rather than "extreme measures".

I think that will happen to a greater degree when a non barrier method is available for men too. Say an implant, stick it in and bob's not your daddy for X number of years. (bar small statistical failure)

So female protected, male protected, and condoms are the forcefield against statistically rare calamity ...but mainly for protection against STDs.

In the meantime, I will keep banging on to DS about the only contraceptive he can be sure is being used appropriatly is the one he is applying to himself and using it exactly as directed.

And that if the worst happens, and a baby is made, it is not about him and it is not about her, it is about the child made who wasn't in that bedroom making any choices, and the smallest person had to be the over riding priority of all concerned.

Words cannot express how deeply disappointed I would be in him if he turned his back emotionally, phycically or economically on a child he created, whatever the circumstsnces of its conception.

And if he wouldn't be there in those terms, me and DH would be. Using his potential inheritance to make it happen.

Lottie, I keep my pill in my purse and take it when convenient. I could easily pop out one a day and bin rather than take, DH would not know.

For a couple in a LTR it should be easy for the man to keep track of whether his DW/DP is actually taking the pill or not. If there's room for doubt he can use a condom.

Its so easy for women not to take their pill or to get their coil\implant or what ever removed and their partner would never know. This is about trust and the OPs original question was relating to women tricking their partners into having children. My DF and I discussed contraception and agreed on the method we felt most confortable with. He trusted me! When we choose to start ttc we discussed it and he knew when it would happen. He trusted me in the same way I trust him not to sleep with someone else. If you are in a loving and trusting relationship then there would not be any room for doubt that the woman was taking her pill or whatever.

I still for the life of me can not and will never be able to understand why any woman would want to have a child with a partner that wasn't sure, wasn't ready or didn't want any. Its a life critical decision and I just don't get it.

But that's a risk you take in any relationship isn't it? We all have to trust that our partner is not going to lie to us about a number of issues.

'If you are in a loving and trusting relationship then there would not be any room for doubt that the woman was taking her pill or whatever.'

Hopefully, yes. It seems to me that there are people who think it's ok to get pregnant accidentally on purpose though. My view is that rather than being deliberately cruel to their partner they are misguided as to the problems that could arise.

I think you're right about the misguided bit lottie, but also the two women I know who did that were very misguided in thinking that an accidentally in purpose pregnancy would fix their doomed relationships.

lottie Not at all.. They are not misguided, they are lying and deceitful and they know it. Trusting your long term partner is not a risk. Its exactly that, trust! If one of them break that trust (eg not take the pill) then they were never in a trusting relationship and the decieved partner has every right to leave and the lier has to take ownership and responsibilty of their actions. And in some extreme cases that's the mother become a single parent.

And how do you explain that to a child. Where is daddy? He left because he never wanted you and I lied to him! Oh maybe you lie and make the father out as the bad person. I don't get why any woman would risk putting themselves in that position.

Hopefully, yes. It seems to me that there are people who think it's ok to get pregnant accidentally on purpose though. My view is that rather than being deliberately cruel to their partner they are misguided as to the problems that could arise.

LMAO! "Misguided"??!!

LittlePeaPod - absolutely.

misguided

Minmising grave errors into mistakes puts so many children at the sharp end.

It is not kinder, or "better personhood" or "more evolved" to collude via lexis with a mindset that places children at a greater risk of disadvantage.

Not unless you believe the only people who matter are the large sized ones.

"For a couple in a LTR it should be easy for the man to keep track of whether his DW/DP is actually taking the pill or not. If there's room for doubt he can use a condom."

My gf was on the pill for years (I assume, this thread suggests maybe not) and I would not have had a breeze if she just decided not to take it?
How would I? She took it on her own schedule and had complete control over it.

For a couple in a LTR it should be easy for the man to keep track of whether his DW/DP is actually taking the pill or not. If there's room for doubt he can use a condom.

Unless the man is insisting on watching his DW/DP take her daily pill, how can he easily keep track of this? Checking the pill packet doesn't prove anything, because a DW/DP intent on tricking her partner into pregnancy could easily throw the pill away if she wasn't being watched.

And I don't think it's normal behaviour for a man to insist on this level of surveillance. I think it's a lot more normal in a long term relationship for partners to be truthful about contraception, and to be able to trust each other to be truthful about contraception use.