To think getting pregnant "accidentally" is not ok

[Buddhagirl]

Conversion with a gf yesterday along the lines of:

Me: i really want to start ttc I wish dh would agree to start sooner
Her: just come off contraception and don't tell him, you will both love the baby and make it work
Me: isn't that unfair and a bit immoral?
Her: loads of people do it, what's the worst that could happen?

I do wonder how many "accidents" are really accidents. I can see how women would want to do this and I'm sure most do cope and it's ok, but surely it's really unfair?

That's so selfish. I don't think I could live with the lie and would end up confessing anyway!

LittlePea, I think in the situation you describe the woman is almost entirely to blame for the situation she is in. I don't really understand why people are so keen to remove that blame from someone who deliberately and manipulatively lied to get what she wanted.

While I appreciate that the man could have removed the risk of pregnancy entirely by abstaining, it's really not that much to ask that someone you are having sex with is telling you the truth about whether they have a coil fitted or not. He had sex thinking there was a very tiny risk of pregnancy, when actually it was a very big risk. We take calculated risks all the time. I don't think you can blame someone for taking a risk when they can't possibly have any idea how big a risk they are taking because of someone else's deception and lies.

The fact that the man didn't step up and at least provide the pitiful amount the CSA would ask of him is bad, but that 'crime' is nowhere near as bad as hers.

I'm not going to lie. I've thought about it. I've even gone as far as not taking my pill. But then laid in bed feeling very guilty, and got up and taken it. Never lasted more than about an hour without feeling a huge amount of guilt!

But I would NEVER do it. Deciding on a baby is a partnership decision, if he says he's not ready for another 6 months, that's fine. But once it gets to 6 months, I'm coming off the pill (telling him obviously!). That was the choice and compromise that we made.

"Men who don't want 'accidents' need to abstain, insist on condoms + another method and be confident they're using them correctly or have a vasectomy."

Accidents happen, but we're talking about 'accidents'. The above quote is saying that if they don't won't an 'accident' they should assume their partner is a liar. It's an absolute red flag. Lying to have his child against his wishes is an immediate "Leave The Bastard" situation.

I agree with Northern, and AThing.
If a man really doesn't want a child, then he needs to wear a condom, or get a vasectomy.
Women don't get pregnant on their own, and even if a woman has a child that the man doesn't want her to have, it's still his child and he needs to support it.
I actually think this issue is more shades of grey than people want to think.
I think it is often quite hard for some men to say "yes, now, lets make a baby". I don't know many who have been that unequivocal.
However, they will take contraceptive risks, and when a baby does "accidentally" come along, they are "shocked" but pleased.
What I am saying is that I think men do this too. No, it's not the most sensible thing in the world, but it seems like sometimes people need to almost stumble into parenthood, and find the planning and decision making really scary.

I would say that the vast majority of men I know became fathers (in their relationships) without much discussion or planning-or no overt planning anyway.
Also, you can both agree to children, and your partner can still cheat on you while you are pregnant, leave you, pay no child support etc.
Anything can happen.

I am not saying I would do what your friend suggested OP, but it doesn't make me clutch my pearls in horror, especially because my best friend is facing an un chosen childfree future, because her partner can't make his mind up, and that seems far crueller to me.

I know of two couples where the woman tried to trap the man by "accidentally" falling pregnant (deliberately coming off contraception without telling the man).

Both couples split. In both cases, the dad is now the main carer and the children are very much loved.

"The above quote is saying that if they don't won't an 'accident' they should assume their partner is a liar."

I'm not sure that it is.

If you definitely don't want children at the moment, you need to take responsibility for your own fertility.

Leaving contraception up to someone else, particularly a someone else who would like to have a baby, seems kind of crazy to me.

I trust DH not to lie to me.

But I wouldn't trust anyone other than myself to take responsibility for my fertility.

Not because they would lie (although they might) but because I need to know that the sex I'm having is as safe as possible.

I agree that it is not right to lie about contraception.

But I find it completely bizarre that a man who definitely doesn't want to become a father will leave it up to someone else to make sure it doesn't happen.

because her partner can't make his mind up, and that seems far crueller to me.

She doesn't have to be a passive "victim" in this. It's 2013. As women we have a greater range of choices these days. We don't have to sit around and wait to see if somebody will deign to give us what we want. We can chose to reject relationships that fail to tick the must have boxes. If he can't make up his mind she still gets to make up her mind. If she wants children in her future she can chose not to be with somebody who is uncertain that they want the same thing.

It isn't cruel to say you are unsure if you want children or not if that is how you feel. It's an honest peice of information that your firend is privy to. It is up to her to decide if it is a deal breaker or not.

If somebody wants children presumably they also want them to have a secure, stable future. Having a none too willing parent who is unsure he even wants them in his life raises the odds of stability having a sledgehammer chucked at it down the line. Wanting children comes with the responsibility also of choosing a solid context for them to born into as well. It's not just about "feeling", it requires THINKING too.

Or at least, it ought to.

In this thread an accident is an accident. An 'accident' is when somebody does something on purpose and lies about it.

ifnotnow I disagree with the point that most men become fathers accidentally... In my group of close friend (8 couples) all if us fell pregnant falling a joint decision between our partners. All our partners had agreed and were exciting to start trying for a baby. None of the babies were accidents or a surprise. I understand this can happen though. Some of my friends have two and three DC. I am a first time mum to be. I also disagree with the whole vacasetomy argument. So a man should end any possibility of ever having a child in case the women his with at the time decides to lie and trap him? . Maybe he just isn't ready or maybe he doesn't want a child with that person. I waited till 37 before falling pregnant because I wasn't ready for a child before that. So had I been a man I should have taken my choice of having a child away before? That doesn't stack up. It's a joint discussion and the risk becomes relative to the contraception method chosen by both parties.

Leaving contraception up to someone else, particularly a someone else who would like to have a baby, seems kind of crazy to me.

A someone else who CONSTANTLY thinks about having a baby, is so broody she looks at others who are pregnant/have a new baby and is immensely jealous - yes that is a bit crazy!
But there is an element of trust, OH trusts me to take my pill, and if I did actually follow through with my thoughts of not taking it, I would be deceiving him in the biggest way possible.

I think they need to bloody hurry up with a male version of the pill. In our relationship going the 'condom or vasectomy' route wouldn't work. We both HATE condoms, and he doesn't want to have a vasectomy for another few years. So yes, the responsibility does fall to me. But, we've discussed it, and that it was works for us.

The way that I currently feel about having another baby (obsessed)....I understand why women do get pregnant by 'accident'.

Chunder yes I think what she consciously choose to do makes her disgusting with little moral fibre. She knew what she was doing.... It's disgusting!

I disagree that the man moving away from his twins, refusing to see them and pay for them is less 'bad' than the mother who lied to him about her contraception.

What she did was appalling. I'm not going to defend it. However, it doesn't matter how those children were conceived once they have been born. Would we have said his behaviour was acceptable if she'd been one of the few who conceived while taking the pill correctly for example?

Any adult with a modicum of personal responsibility accepts the fact that sex has the potential to result in a baby, and while you can do lots to minimise that risk, you cannot fully eradicate it. It's perfectly acceptable to be angry/upset/scared about an unplanned pregnancy, but it's not ok to walk away from the resulting child.

Awful thing to do to both the child and the other person. What sort of person lies about contraception?

How do you get pregnant by accident anyway, its not like adults don know sex can lead to pregnancy. Unplanned maybe but the odds of getting pregnant if you really dont want to and are using two methods together are very very rare. Suspect most unplanned are through lax use of contraception and that means they are definately not accidental.

Yes, accidents do happen LaQueen - but if you weren't using protection and you had sex, it's not really an accident is it? You didn't accidently have sex with no protection, I imagine? I would call that unplanned. As in, you didn't plan to have another baby.

But I find it completely bizarre that a man who definitely doesn't want to become a father will leave it up to someone else to make sure it doesn't happen.

If they ever manage to produce a pill or an implant for men I think you will see that change.

Looking at the popularity of the cap compared to "don't have to think about it when passion is occupying the brain" non barrier methods I think we can say that the preferred methods are those that offer a high degree of fetility control, but don't tend interupt the heat of the moment or limit sensation.

Once a more comparable range of options are on the table for men I think the birth rate will probably plummet.

And if it does come about you'll get a new "sneaky" issue. Men claiming a contraception free state when in fact they are making damn sure a pregnancy isn't going to happen. Which is no better than women doing the opposite. Anything that occurs on a basis of deliberately hiding the true facts from a partner or blatently lying is no good basis for a healthy, sustainable relationship.

Yeah, my friend can "choose" carpe. She doesn't have to stay-in fact I think she should leave, BUT she is 38. Her partner vacillated for 6 years, and now it looks like he is never going to commit (with her anyway.) so, quite probably, she is fucked. For some reason, this makes me rather angry.

Its not a good move its a really very stupid one but then so is having sex without taking responsibility for yourself.

Her partner vacillated for 6 years

As did she. She wasn't chained to him. She obviously believed he was worth the gamble of never truely being in favpur of having children. She threw the dice and by your account, it looks like she lost. But she threw the dice. She could have walked away 2,3,4 years ago. She chose not to.

I can understand disappointed. But not angry. Unless you know that he knew from the start he wpuld never want kids and chose to reframe it as "I don't know either way yet" as a device to string her along becuase he wanted to motivate her to stay ...what exactly has he done wrong, other than tell her the truth ? That he doesn't know if he wants kids and doesn't know for sure that he will in the future ?

Relationships don't come with guarentees. All any of us can do is pick the best odds we can for a happy, secure, stable, loving outcome. And in this day and age we as women have choices. Those choices come with the responsibility of living with the putcome of what we chose, rather than blaming somebody else when we take a time sensitive gamble ...and lose.

It's a silly idea. What happens if your DH thinks it's the wrong timing or doesn't want any? You could end up a single parent because you've not planned the baby.