To wonder why on earth Troops to Teachers is considered to be a great idea?

[ballinacup]

Before we start, I'm not armed forces bashing, I'm sure there are some troops out there who would make excellent teachers. But why on earth offer a fast track course to troops without a degree?!

It seems like sheer madness, why not offer the fast track course to anyone? Am I missing some glaringly obvious fact that makes it all make sense? Or has Gove got a vision in his head of classrooms running with military precision if he has soldiers at the helm?

Can someone please explain it to me, because I'm genuinely puzzled.

Fuzzysnout you have cracked their code! Brilliant. Our country's officially run by the cast of The Thick of It. Very worried by this. I had a degree and many years experience teaching post 16, and I still had to go back to college and do a year's PGCE before I was allowed to teach in a secondary school. And it was necessary. How is it suddenly not?

jesus fucking christ - what can we do to get this man OUT of office?

My Dad worked as a teacher trainer. He failed 2/3 of his students.

The university always overturned his marks because otherwise their stats would look bad. He felt they were no way qualified to teach and felt sorry for the children that got them.

My mum sat the intensive Ofsted course twice and failed both times. The reason was because she was too challenging (she was told) and she refused to lower her expectations of teachers to fit government stats.

This doesn't mean all teachers are shit. But some definitely are. And that is WITH degrees presumably.

Also, my Dad had a bet with another teacher that he could teach the worst class in a rough east end primary school, how to Morris Dance and ALL of them how to play a musical instrument to performance standard, without being able to either Morris Dance himself or play anything.

This 'class' (when 16) represented England for a Month in Walt Disney World and got paid generously. They were also invited to many international festivals.

Teaching is the skill, subject knowledge less so, - particularly when information is so readily available and not only in people's heads.

Get Instructional Control, break down tasks into small parts, teach in a logical order, building up to higher skills. That's the basis of evidence-based practice. It's what (some) soldiers are good at. As well as remaining calm and unwavering during frustrations.

I think this is a good idea. I think there's a lot to offer here, and I think it would be great to up the number of male teachers in primary schools and this would help.

Yes, but I suspect if your dad's class was competing in Morris dancing with every other school in the country were pupils were taught by teachers who had degree courses in Morris Dancing, they may not have done so well..

Despite their age, I would also say that primary teaching must remain a well qualified profession and our primary teachers must still be required to hold a degree. Anything less is a disservice to our children. Yes but there are some drippy teachers around under the current systems and it's no guarantee of a good 'un. Just because you're in the army doesn't mean you're stupid.

I think it is a good idea. So many kids don't have any men in their lives, and here would be some good role models.

FFS!

^^ see my post

*Teaching is the skill, subject knowledge less so, - particularly when information is so readily available and not only in people's heads.

Get Instructional Control, break down tasks into small parts, teach in a logical order, building up to higher skills. That's the basis of evidence-based practice. It's what (some) soldiers are good at. As well as remaining calm and unwavering during frustrations.*

starlight Yes!!!

"I think it is a good idea. So many kids don't have any men in their lives, and here would be some good role models."

Yes! The government could allocate one spare soldier to every single parent household. That would solve the bedroom tax and the homelessness created by shutting down barracks and service accommodation and give needy children a male role model not just for school.
You could post them round in a rota every year so no one got bored and the children got to see a variety.
Excellent. Please see DC for your Gold Star of Merit for Good Thinking.

I think its is real dumbing down if a teacher does not have to have a good honours degree in the subject specialism they will teach at secondary school. How can they inspire respect from their pupils if they do not have a thorough academic grounding in their subject?

However, I understand in England you don't need to have a degree in a subject to teach it at secondary level - am I right? I live in Scotland, where it is essential (however, we have our own problems with Mad Mike Russell).

neorla They represented England at Disney World. They had to be at least as good as other international teams who had substantial funding and backing and national music and dance heavily funded.

WDW don't pay anything but extremely top performing entertainment.

ithaka I have a Maths A level, not a degree, but was hounded by the Teaching Agency trying to persuade me to train as a maths teacher. (Came about because I made an enquiry on the website re training for a subject I did have a degree in). I explained to one of the numerous callers that I would not feel confident teaching able pupils to A level, and was told 'you just keep ahead of them ion the text book'. And they railroaded me into going into a school for a day to see maths taught. it was interesting, and I could see that I probably could do it (but prefer my own subject )
So... it appear that certainly for maths a degree is not necessary.

I think that Gove thinks that Soldiers would just do as they were told.

Then Gov lot could invent a curriculum by drill and get soldiers to deliver it unquestioningly without whinging.

I think that letting anyone without proper training and qualifications teaching children is a crazy idea which I hope will be a failure.

"How come miners didn't get fast tracked, or steel workers?"

Are you underestimating the qualis you need to be a good soldier now compared with the qualis you needed to be a miner in the 60s and 70s? Maybe. Military training is quite something. Maybe it's not popular with the left wing/with teachers/with the teaching unions because they are quite left-dominated at the moment and they fear this would alter a balance?

Star...spot on!

Rochelle sorry, don't know if you are or aren't a teacher, but it so often seems on MN that teachers on here (on a school day?) want every government initiative to be a failure so they can crawl back into their cosy complacency and await the arrival of a Labour Gvt...

Awful to WANT things to fail - Rochelle that does mean you want a large cohort of children to fail so you can be proved right!

Er, I'm not currently a teacher. I went off to do something easier and more interesting.

Oddly, this doesn't make me think that lowering the standard of subject knowledge required of teachers will lead to better exam results.

Twats like the one at the Teaching Agency suggesting you teach A level maths with no more than A level yourself are part of the problem, not a beacon for the way forward.

My dad is used to people jumping when he says jump(zero patience),that is not a good skill to have when faced with group of stroppy teenagers needing quadratic equations explained for the 5th time.

They're going into two years of training, not straight into the classroom, so probably this question will be avoided what with selection procedures and then training. I think soldiers have to have quite a lot (quite!) a lot of patience and self-control actually, maybe your Dad didn't but that doesn't mean all service personnel are like that, not at all.

Teaching unions seem to be against everything though, they complain that something like this lowers the standard, but they also complain about efforts to raise standards, selection and training to avoid some of the duffers who pass at the moment.