To wonder why on earth Troops to Teachers is considered to be a great idea?

[ballinacup]

Before we start, I'm not armed forces bashing, I'm sure there are some troops out there who would make excellent teachers. But why on earth offer a fast track course to troops without a degree?!

It seems like sheer madness, why not offer the fast track course to anyone? Am I missing some glaringly obvious fact that makes it all make sense? Or has Gove got a vision in his head of classrooms running with military precision if he has soldiers at the helm?

Can someone please explain it to me, because I'm genuinely puzzled.

Sure why not?

Our current 30 children to one teacher model is based on the army model of one Officer to 30 charges.

As a teacher can I now have a gun and join the SAS?

I'm a teacher and a parent and I have two objections to this bizarre plan:

1. I don't want my child taught by someone without a degree

1. I resent the implication that time in the armed forces makes you so good a candidate for teaching that you don't need a degree.

How will this 'raise standards' exactly?

If you're teaching by rote, you need drill sergeants innit!

Seeing as so many of you are against Army and Soldiers being teachers can we assume that RAF airmen and women and RN sailors are ok?

"As a teacher can I now have a gun and join the SAS?"

Pass selection, and yes you can. And everything you need to do on selection, you'll be shown how to do, so in theory a civilian could do it.

Errrr not going by my dad .

He is a retired RAF officer and appalling at teaching.He was an excellent officer and leader(MBE) however even teaching the rules of a board game ends in carnage and as for academic subjects.

My dad is used to people jumping when he says jump(zero patience),that is not a good skill to have when faced with group of stroppy teenagers needing quadratic equations explained for the 5th time.

My mother was a teacher,there is no comparison.Mad,mad idea.

It wasn't until 1968 that teachers were even awarded degrees. Lots of my friends parents did not have degrees as teachers (primary education). This was the case in the 70s as well.

Independent schools and academies do not need to employ teachers with QTS.

While many soldiers will not have degrees or be suitable to a career in teaching many will have degree level training and be more than suitable.

Having said all of this, I am not really sure this a good idea from Gove.

Pass selection, and yes you can

Well, not if she's female

I know a couple of ex soldiers that became teachers after they left the Army. Both did the full training though.

As long as they have the degrees, I can understand fastracking them, but not without.

AGC(ETS) Officers complete teacher training I believe, so the jobs would be ideal for them, although would definately mean a pay drop. I suppose teaching as a supplement to pension would bring it back up.

It wouldn't be for me - I get far too frustrated with people that don't understand things straight away. At least I can shout at hairy arsed squaddies - I'd be a terrible teacher .

What's this obsession with degrees?

I thought they weren't worth much these days!?

They say that those joining this scheme will undergo a form of selection; it's not a free-for-all for any old grunt.

And as the teacher training will be carried out by those who already train our teachers, it is very worrying that so many here believe it is possible for the unsuitable to pass. For having a degree isn't synonymous with being a suitable candidate teacher, and those temperamentally unsuitable can come from any previous walk of life. If it is not possible to fail the training, we are already in a serious situation.

On of the best teachers I know is the Head of MFL at a successful school. He does not have GCSE maths, as not required when he trained, and had a mediocre 2:2 degree. However, he is inspirational, respected by peers, parents and his students - who get good results (note to teacher: it is the students who achieve the results, not the teachers), and even better, imbues a real interest in languages in them.
So academic qualifications are the least important thing in a good teacher - the ability to motivate students to want to learn is far more important, and the ability to motivate is a key skill developed in army officers.

I agree, my BILL with a third in media studies has just been accepted to do a PGCE. He's spent the last 6 years working in a call centre (and admittedly one as a TA).

Some of the NCOs who I know don't have a degree but have far more knowledge (particularly in mechanics and engineering) and would make excellent teachers (they help run the cub and scout groups).

The fast track course they will be requiring these people to do will be degree level and standard.

My friend spent 5 years as an officer in the Army and is now a teacher, he is extremely good at his job (not just me being biased, I know someone unconnected with him, who works in his LEA and told me he is v well thought of). He says the Army was easy compared to his current job (teaching primary level in an inner city school). Class size of 31 and a teaching assistant to help only three mornings a week.

I hope the people choosing this path don't think it's going to be a walk in the park compared to their previous career... (hm too many road metaphors, sorry).

There was an ex Army type in DS1's Primary school and all he did was bark instructions at the pupils and make them afraid. We removed DS 1 before he had to go in that class.
DS2 is doing a Public Services course at FE college and all the tutors have either armed forces or Police backgrounds. Not impressed by them at all. Seems as if they thought it would be a cushy number when they finished their service.

Idea from Gove = poorly thought-out crap.

I think it is a good idea. So many kids don't have any men in their lives, and here would be some good role models.

Qualified? As a governor recruiting for a head teacher, I was shocked at how badly educated the applicants were. I mean, good on them for training on after their 4 O levels and hats off to them, I support them all the way.

But the base level was low.

I'm baffled by it too.

I was/with a group of children and the father of one of them the other day. He's in the army. It was a party and they were all milling around noisily and excitedly, right up until he spoke to them. His voice was quiet and calm and his manner was gentle, but he had every child suddenly hanging onto his every word.

I don't think this means every soldier would make a good teacher. I just think this one might. That's by the by and not enough info to base a policy on. P'raps Gove knows someone like this father and thought one man means Everyman. How bizarre!

I love the whole 'any fule can do a PGCE - you only need a fourth-class degree in David Beckham studies' thing.

PGCEs are competitive. My institution doesn't admit people with lower than 2.1. That is quite common.

The bottom line is, to teach GCSE or A-level you need a good subject knowledge. It's part of the ridiculous inverted snobbery around education in this country that people think you just have to 'be inspirational'. Well, no: this is not lay preaching. You do actually have to understand the subject you teach.

Bright kids will ask questions, want advice on how to push further, want to know which universities are best for their subject, want extra-curricular reading....... how will someone without even a degree meet these demands?

I believe they are going to be rigorously assessed and interviewed. I have a degree and work in a school in a support role [post children career change]. I would not ever want to teach and am dismayed at the poor standard of some of these young newly qualified teacher with no previous life or work experiences. So I say lets give them a chance god knows we are in dire need of discipline in some schools.

I don't understand why people feel the need to point out that many in the armed forces have degrees. Why is that relevant?

This scheme has nothing whatsoever to do with ex forces personnel who have degrees. If they want to teach, they apply for a one year post grad course like everyone else from every other walk of life who decides they would like to teach. Why would they want to do this 2yr course?

I have taught primary and secondary with one year in an FE college teaching my subject at Alevel. Firstly, there is no way I could have taught Alevel without having a degree in my subject. My knowledge needed to be above and beyond what was expected from an A grade Alevel student. I was their teacher therefore my knowledge needed to deeper than theirs.

Secondly, teaching at primary level is, quite frankly, an entirely different job. Apart from being the most emotionally exhausting job of the 3 sectors, to think that teaching adults gives you any sort of awareness or qualification to teach young children is simply way off the mark. The range both academically and in maturity is vast. Despite their age, I would also say that primary teaching must remain a well qualified profession and our primary teachers must still be required to hold a degree. Anything less is a disservice to our children.

So by all means, let well qualified ex forces personnel join the teaching profession. However, don't presume to send them into our classrooms as less qualified individuals than their colleagues.

There are soldiers who would make good teachers, they have the natural ability, I know one who is excellent with childrens, however, soldiers generally? No Way unless qualified like any other teacher.

Bawabod, yours is more an argument for suggesting that teachers do a year outside the confines of education before starting work. I have heard good arguments for that before and I'm not adverse to it at all. I will be encouraging all of mine to take a gap year (working long hours not swanning around Peru) either before going to university or just after. I value life experience hugely and undoubtedly, many ex forces men and women could bring something to the table. But lack of academic qualifications must always be a stumbling block to teaching in our schools. It's a slippery slope otherwise.