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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder wtf the government expects single parents to do?

208 replies

RocksThatIGot · 06/06/2013 11:29

I have just been given a place on an access course, as I want to study to become a social worker. I am a single mum to two dc, and I have had a nightmare few years having been in an emotionally abusive relationship, and subsequently had to go to court several times (13 and counting) to face my abusive ex. So I have been earning money where I can but the court thing has taken over my life for the last 18 months or so and because of legal aid taking any money I do earn in contributions, it just hasn't made any sense to earn money, especially with the stress of what has been going on.

I am aware of the changes coming to benefits with the universal credit, which it seems are going to adversely affect the lone parents who are self employed, like me! So I have applied to college as I have inspired by the social workers dealing with my court case, and I want to be able to give my dc a better life. I know it will be a long slog with 4 years of study, but I am determined to do it.

So I just got a place at college, and went to see about getting financial help with childcare and travel costs (the nearest college doing the course I need is 40 miles away). And it turns out that, guess what, the government has scrapped all that financial help, as of this year! I have been told that i can apply to the college for a bursary but this is not going to be very much and unlikely to even cover half of my travel costs. So I have no idea how I am going to survive the year of this course. I'm just so angry that the government are doing everything they can to make it impossible for people to be on benefits, but at the same time they are making it impossible for single parents to study and get into employment! Am I missing something here?

OP posts:
HeadsDownThumbsUp · 06/06/2013 23:03

The point is that she is trying to improve her professional and financial circumstances, and that supporting her in these aims is likely to be a lot more cost effective in the long term than having her on the dole, or in low paid, government subsidised work.

All this 'in theory but there are no guarantees' stuff is just obstinate nonsense.

RocksThatIGot · 06/06/2013 23:11

Is the name 'niceguy' meant to be ironic? Confused

OP posts:
RocksThatIGot · 06/06/2013 23:14

Exactly headsdown, and one change I do agree with is the fact that access courses now have to be paid with by a loan that gets wiped out on completion of your degree. This is a better system than the government just paying your course fees for you, which was the old system. So now anyone embarking on an access course would have to be pretty serious about getting a degree, rather than just doing it for the sake of it.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 07/06/2013 01:05

And how is this any different from anyone else wanting to do the same, HeadsDown, but who may not be a lone parent? There is no funding for them, either, on an access course. But what there are, are work rounds. You prove yourself by passing that course, or gaining those A-levels, then you get funding for the degree. Sure, it may not be by full-time study, but so? Others have pointed out how you can do it without the government stumping up for childcare and travel. This is an issue for many, not just lone parents. They have to find those workrounds. But it's not good enough for the OP? She has to have a FT access course with paid childcare and travel, but the kid coming out of care or from parents on benefits or in that awful low-paid work gets FA?

And why does not doing so mean a lifetime of dole, or, SHOCKER, low-paid work?! OMG, wouldn't want to be like them, those low-paid workers! I'm better than that, so I deserve FT funding. What kind of message does that send, to those who are not lone parents, but low-income?

Low-paid people pay taxes and NI, too! To access higher education, they, too, have to resolve issues with childcare and travel and not expect the state to pay it.

So low-paid work is something less than? Just there to support others to 'better themselves' gratis?

expatinscotland · 07/06/2013 01:08

I completely disagree with any set of low-income access course student being funded more than another, for whatever reason.

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 07/06/2013 01:38

Yep, I think that full time access courses should be accessible to them too. They're not exactly access courses if they're financially inaccessible.

This isn't a case of single parents vs the poor. I think that these opportunities should be equally open to everyone, and that parents with limited financial means will need a bit of extra help with childcare at the same time.

Nor do I think that there is anything wrong with low paid work, or relying on benefits if you can't find work. But these are forms of government support too. So many low paid jobs are only financially viable because the government subsidises wages with tax credits and housing benefit. Supporting unemployment, or low paid work, but not study, is not a rational decision for an administration to make.

CarpeVinum · 07/06/2013 01:45

The OU do an Access route.

www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/access/england.htm

It would appear to be heavily subsidised if you live in England and meet the requirements.

"If you live in England and have an annual household income of less than £25,000 or are on certain benefits you may be successful in gaining a place on our Access to Success Route. The Access to Success Route is a two-step process which gives you the opportunity to begin your studies with a heavily subsidised Access module. Students studying either Y031, Y032 or Y033 as Step 1 of the Access to Success Route will pay only £25."

I know it feels horrible to suddenly find out that things you didn't know about chuck a spanner in the works. I "got on my bike" as instructed by Tebbit et al, well...plane. Worked for several years in Asia, returned to an Access course all fired up to become a "proper" teacher, only to discover that having been put of the country for three years I was only eligible for overseas students fee rates. Which was well out of my reach.

In my case the opportunity sort of died there and then, but the spanner/works and the resultant struggle to avoid sinking without a trace in the awful unemployment situation of the time probably accidentally saved me from a route that in retrospect, I think was a case of round peg in rather ovalish hole.

In your case while it may not be the physical college you had hoped for, there does still seem to be options on the table. You have to love how distance learning combined with the internet has foiled the geographical and time contraints of old Grin.

janey68 · 07/06/2013 06:47

Agree with the posts which say that this isn't a single parent issue. Many people can't afford to retrain or go to university and it wouldn't even occur to them to expect they'd get all their childcare and travel costs paid for.

Why should someone who has split with their partner (for whatever reason) be entitled to something which many couples who remain together can't do?

There have been some really positive suggestions on here about how you can pursue your studies so there are ways through- just not necessarily the one you'd ideally like

JustinBsMum · 07/06/2013 07:41

OP could have had 2 dcs after qualifying for a career. It is hard now compared to the not very recent past when gov paid for all sorts but now people will be more likely to cut their cloth to fit the fact that there is no spare money for anyone. It will be interesting to see how society changes when the benefits stop. The gov didn't save in the good times, now there is no money in the bad times.

samethingdifferentman · 07/06/2013 07:51

i dont know why the is an assumption that ALL lone parents must be destined to low paid work and have to have funding to better themseleves.

There are also plenty of lone parents who are educated and who have had good jobs/ careers.

A job is a job, at the momment, in this market, people are lucky to be working.

I used to have a big, career job. Fact is, being on my own ( divorced) and with a baby meant i couldnt carry it on, i couldnt juggle it. I now do shop work, and its fine, it fits in with my child, which is the most important thing, im earning and not totally on benefits.

I intend, when my child is older to hopefully go back to what i was doing before. or something like it.

The govt shouldnt have to pick up the tab for 'lone parents' to further their education to have better earning power ( and thats a whole other argument as to if having a degree means you automatically get a better job) If you want to work and study, then you pay for it.

Lazyjaney · 07/06/2013 08:10

OP you chose your path, it is not the Governments or the taxpayers fault so YABU to want them to bail you out.

samandi · 07/06/2013 08:34

No offence to anyone, but all the feedback I have ever got about Access courses has been negative and not all uni's will accept them. One friend even said there were some people on her's who could barely read!

Access courses are quite widely accepted - none of the unis I applied to, including Bristol and Edinburgh, had a problem with it. Same goes for fellow students. Of course you should check individual uni requirements beforehand.

CarpeVinum · 07/06/2013 11:16

OP, this upcoming ac. year doesn't have to be a wash out if you don't manage to get sorted in time. Taking advantage of the free online courses from the OU via Open Learn in combination with the "networked and collaborative learning" opportunities of a MOOC from somewhere like Coursera can be a real boost to your future learning success.

These sorts of course let you cut your teeth before it matters, get the cogs going again while you have the luxury of time to oil them when they are still a bit creaky due to significant time away from education, encounter and overcome the humps of managing study and all the other things you have to do, create strategies for self motivation...and get into discussion with a huge varied sea of people with similar academic interests, which can make you feel a lot less lonely.

I seriously recommend these possibilities as a way not only to avoid this ac. year being a wash out, but give yourself a leg up so when you can start a formal place you aren't starting from the ground up, you will have already done enough of a "warmup" to hit the ground running.

www.open.edu/openlearn/about-openlearn/try

www.coursera.org/

infamouspoo · 07/06/2013 12:39

lot of people on this thread accusing the OP of being 'entitled' to wanting to study the equivelent of A levels because she needs some help.
FFS, she wants to better herself in the same way 16-18 yo's study A levels. Scrounging little fuckers. Maybe they should be out there working instead of sponging off taxpayers (both their parents and other people via child benefit, CTC, free education paid for by taxpayers).
Education of anyone benefits everyone in the long run. We are a society, not a colletion of little islands hoarding 'mine mine mine'.

janey68 · 07/06/2013 13:01

No one is Having a pop at her for wanting to gain qualifications and an education.
People are simply pointing out that no one has an automatic entitlement to go off to study a course, all childcare and travel costs fully paid for. Most people probably couldn't afford to do it. It's not a single parent issue, it's simply a reality which affects many

What is at last happening is that govt policy is catching up with social changes. 40 odd years ago as a youngster I barely knew any divorced couples. There was a real stigma attached. Nowadays it's something like between a third and half of marriages end in divorce, not to mention the many separations of couples who never married. And many of these couple expect to go on and start a new family with someone else. So society is very different to how it was, and cloth needs to be cut accordingly.

Interestingly, when we were a young working couple with children, there were a number of things I couldn't afford to do which i would have had access to if i were a single parent, and these were always related to either education or health. I couldn't afford to jack in my job and go off to study, whereas if I'd split with my DH, I would have got funding. There were also a number of occasions I couldn't afford dental treatment which I realised if I'd been a single parent on benefits, I would have accessed for free.

Now, the problem with MN is that when you talk quite rationally about these things, a few people always jump in and say its 'single parent bashing.' It isn't. It's simply pointing out that policy is finally beginning to catch up with social changes.

At the end of the day, govt money doesn't drop off the money tree: it's generated by tax- and no that's not just the high earners, it's people in ordinary jobs. Why should they be paying towards things like childcare to enable someone else to go back to college when they are already paying their own childcare for their own children, and don't have the opportunity to go back to college themselves.

Would really appreciate some genuine answers; not interested in boring old 'single parent basher' replies

infamouspoo · 07/06/2013 13:10

one answer is that despite a low income I know I am better off just by having dh here to share the childcare than by being a single parent. Sure I dont get so called financial freebies but I have another adult here to help me with the kids so I could go off and study or do other stuff.
Childcare costs are way more than the odd dentist visit or wotnot and there's no 'cost' on just having someone else to share the burden of puking children, or one being sick and needing hospital and having someone else to watch the others. It cant be measured. I take my hat of to single parents.

CarpeVinum · 07/06/2013 13:20

lot of people on this thread accusing the OP of being 'entitled' to wanting to study the equivelent of A levels because she needs some help.

To be honest it does sound odd to my ears, the expectation of gov assistance to smooth over the roadblocks of returning to education as an adult (ie childcare) .

I think that's perhaps becuase I left the UK so young (21) and places like Thailand and Italy don't have a comparable welfare state let alone additional assistance for returning to education. Perhaps the mindset of expectation of assistance for a later bite of the cherry is why I didn't gird my loins at 16 when I ploughed my O levels and go for resits instead of merrily wandering along thinking "I'll do it later".

I fucked up. It wasn't entirely my fault, my father walked out on the 2nd day of my O levels. But it was entirely my descision to devalue the opportunity (on a plate) to continue with my education.

I have taught so many young students facing similar or worse challenges here and they don't have the same off hand attitude towards their education that I did. I wouldn't say they percive it as a priviledge as such. But it is so much clearer to them that it is now or probably never than it was for me. And as it turned out, becuase I "got on my plane bike" as instructed, it turned out to be never becuase I put myself out of the game via the economic realities of not being in the UK student fee bracket.

There does seem to be a pervasive belief in the UK that higher education can and will be available despite the greater challenges that being an adult with varied responsibilities and ties brings. 16-18 year olds tend to be footloose and fancey free and enjoying a period where generally they can dedicate themselves solely to their educatiom. It isn't always like that once you have gone on to live as an adult and gained responsibilities and restrictions thanks to a variety of roles you have to play to others.

I was a home educator and was a bit taken aback with how lightly some parents seemed to regard time sensitive access to further or higher ed. There seemed to be little comprehension on some people's part that while access is there on paper, it isn't necessarily smooth, easy or even acheivable access. I think there is a gap between expectations and the reality, and I don't think that is entirely due to the cuts of now. Although cuts generally won't be helping matters.

I am not a fan (at all) of the Italian education system (which is why my son goes to british independant school) but what it does instil is a greater appreciation that either you grab your opportunities now, and you invest your energies in that in a focused manner, or perhaps they won't be there in the future. Which isn't entirely a bad thing, you do see far fewer young people trapped by early and significantly undersupported parenhood for example, which in part is down their lack of illusion that anybody other than themself and their family will plug any gaps between their resources and their needs.

But I would like to see more opp. for education outside of the compulsory age group here. I know a few people in not well paid jobs delaying family, marriage, leaving home til their very late 20s or beyond becuase they are paying for night school to get their middle school or high school diploma. If the gov here would aid transition from brick to online delivery at least then that could go a long way to creating wider access to education because online can remove so many of the physical/time/cost roadblocks.

We are really lucky as English speakers becuase there is so much lower cost, good quality education availble in the distance model. The OU is a spectacular achievement for a nation. Pity its funding got so massively slashed. But I expect the brick unis would have been unhappy at the OU being able to offer vastly subsidised places while they could not.

expatinscotland · 07/06/2013 14:16

Having a partner doesn't necessarily mean you don't have to pay for child care, or that you can go off and study anymore than being a lone parent means you are condemned to be on the dole forever and/or low-paid jobs.

Low-income people pay taxes, too.

The mentality of, 'Well, this low-paid work is bollocks, so the government should make it entirely possible for me to study as I choose, because I'm me, and consider it a privilege I'm doing them this favour and leaving those low-paid plebs behind,' is astonishingly snobby and entitled.

MrsBonkers · 07/06/2013 14:35

Isn't being a Social Worker about problem solving and helping people to help themselves?
How would you advise a client in your situation?

The OP lost my sympathy when she referred to someone with mental health problems as 'crazy.'

CarpeVinum · 07/06/2013 14:51

The OP lost my sympathy when she referred to someone with mental health problems as 'crazy.'

I think when somebody has had their life turned upside down and sideways thanks to a mental illness it is asking a bit much that their frustrations, losses, exhustion etc. must always be expressed in wholly nutral and socially acceptable terms.

There were days when dealing with my late, very mentally ill, MIL ended up with me at the bottom of the garden muttering darkly about "the crazy mother fucker ruining my life". I was beyond being able to differentiate between the illness and the person by the third kick to the crotch that made contact that day. The family members are already unfairly tasked with somehow being able to magically keep unsocial behavoirs under control and keep mentally unwell people (and the gen pub) safe in the face of little to no concrete or useful support. Asking them to consitently watch their language and set a good example in the face of all the pain and challenges they face smacks of yet more pressure on the wrong people and in the wrong place.

Steam will get blown one way pr another or pressure cooker style popping is likely to occur. The odd "crazy" "mad" "bonkers" is a pretty benign mode of doingnthat in the grand scheme of things.

Personally I'd save any genuine outrage for the architects of a system whereby mentally ill people and their families are left pretty much undersupported, overwelmed and so far on a sharp end they feel like the fabric of their lives is more perforation than thread.

janey68 · 07/06/2013 15:33

You might split from your partner, but you don't divorce your children. If there were more emphasis on split parents continuing their responsibility to their children it would be a good thing all round.

We're not living in 1950 anymore when divorce was rare. It's now moving towards half of all families being in this situation, it's not a rarity. Govt policy needs to reflect that. It simply would not make sense from an economic or indeed any other point of view for the 50/60% or so of parents who remain together to be treated totally differently to the 50/40% who separate.

MrsBonkers · 07/06/2013 16:01

Good points CarpeVinum.

AmberLeaf · 07/06/2013 16:13

CarpeVinum That Coursera looks really good, thanks for posting that.

RocksThatIGot · 07/06/2013 16:33

Believe me, after what that bastard put me though, crazy is the very politest way I could describe him. He is a psychopath (literally) who subjected me to three years of hell. Sorry if I can't bring myself to speak nicely of him, when he is still trying to cause me shit to this day, despite the injunction.

OP posts:
pumpkinsweetie · 07/06/2013 17:40

Crazy, mental etc all mean the same thing whether it is un pc means nothing as a man abusing his wife is crazy, pure & simple.
Abusive men/woman should not have it dressed down for them. He sounds mental, abusive and not to mention an unfit father.
Having experienced & lived with my mother whilst she was in a violent relationship, i can tell you now, these men are simply crazy and will do anything to hurt others. Sympathy isn't needed for those types

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