To think my husband is being selfish and doesn't appreciate my sacrifices?

[MangoJuiceAddict]

Hi, i'm new (this is my first thread!) but I look forward to becoming an active member :). This is probably going to turn into a rant as i have nobody else I can share my feelings with.

A few weeks ago I asked my husband (is DH the acronym?) if he would join DD and me in going to visit my grandparents in Scotland for 3 weeks, he laughed and said 'I can't be around your family for that long!'.

I was shocked by this: we've lived with his parents ever since we were 17 (I fell pregnant with DD at 17) so that he could study medicine and fulfill his dream of being a GP, although his parents have helped me A LOT I do sometimes find them overbearing and wish we didn't live with them.
DH then used work as a reason he couldn't come with me and DD (he's just qualified as a GP, and i'm starting to think he cares more about his career than DD and me ). Today I mentioned that i'd like to do a open uni course as I sacrificed going to uni to raise DD and DH laughed and said 'What would be the point?'. Am I being unreasonable or is he being selfish? I'm worried about his attitude affecting DD (she's 11). Apart from that DH is a great dad and is usually very supportive of me, but lately he has become so arrogant and will only so something if it will benefit either his career or his family.

Sorry for the rant, all opinions are welcome :)!

It's good that you get on so well with your in laws. You don't have to move out if you actually get on well :)

Studying for a degree is a whole different matter though. It is clearly something you want to do in order to start to fulfil your own dreams. As others have said the entry requirements for mature applicants are usually different than for those recently out of school. Your parenting skills will give you lots of transferable skills. I definitely wouldn't rule out your DH's old university. Perhaps a chat to the admissions office would give you an idea of entry requirements for mature applicants. Good luck!

of course he can't understand you have your own dreams and ambitions since apparently you never had any before now.
sounds like your in-laws are the ones who sacrificed themselves here....accepting someone from other culture/looking after you as you are their own/supporting you and your husband......
your own parents wouldn't do it.
are you sure you would be able to run a household of your own OP.?
maybe that's what your husband is worried about?

The OU is a proper university.

It takes 3-6 years to do a degree (though you can take time out, in which case longer. There is an upper time limit, not sure what). It's designed to be half-time, so people can fit it around full-time work. (About 15 hours a week - not actually the equivalent of a half-time job but then the time I spent studying when doing my first degree, in a science subject, so quite hands-on, wasn't the equivalent of working FT either). So the standard route is six years but you can take two courses a year, be a 'full-time' student and do it in three, or anything in between.

Employers accept time out to raise children but 11 years and your lack of any experience before that (and during - no voluntary work or anything?), is quite a gap. Teaching would be a good idea because you get a professional qualification, with teaching practice built in, so you'd be starting with the same amount of experience as other newly qualified teachers.

I agree that the OU is a proper university. My point was more that if OP goes to a bricks and mortar uni that is a good place to build make friends / build up contacts and share ideas and that might work better for her. Distance study risks being a bit isolating. It's great for people who can't fit in normal study hours but for someone in OP's position who has been at home for a while and has one older child there is no reason not to go to a university that also offers lots of contact with people in real life.

On properness of the OU, I was responding to INeedSomeSun. I agree OP should look at all options and, being in a large city, she has plenty available. You do get tutorials with the OU, I meet real people every six weeks or so, not as much as if attending a physical establishment of course.

What suits her will depend on how much time she wants to make available, at what times of day and what she can commit to for the next 3 or 4 (with access course?) or six years. A baby would be easier to fit in with OU study than a full-time course that requires regular attendance. Though, it might be possible to start at one place and transfer to OU carrying credits across - worth checking.

Also, is the social aspect important to you OP? There are huge benefits in talking to real people and the expanding of your horizons that offers, as well as mutual support, is a massive part of the 'standard' university experience. I found that wonderful at 19-22 but now, just not necessary, as I already have a social life and life experience - but I already have a diverse mixture of friends, many made at Uni and through work, travels and hobbies and perhaps you don't or would just enjoy meeting some new people.

I came back to say, it is a really good idea to focus on a career that could follow - for your own fulfillment and potentially, security. But, your DH is not going to be impressed by that any more than by you studying if he thinks it's all unecessary.

I really think you just have to say you're going to study because you want to, it's a argument that can't be disputed in itself, though obstacles can be put in your way of course.

It will be a great example to your daughter, both of what women can achieve and that studying can be for satisfaction and the pleasure of learning, not just to buy a career (or husband).

You've been clear that your DH puts you and dd second after his parents - not halthy but probably not going to change. You need to redress this by putting you and dd first.

Pardon my ignoprance but why so many doctors are Asian?

There are far less resources for learning regional languages beyond the ubiquitous "Learn xyz in 30 days through English/Hindi" titles. There are almost as many Indian languages as there are states in India. Then within those languages there are sub-dialects again ( as in English). Even though Hindi is the national language, these others will be spoken by at least 50 million people each and will be their primary language in daily life.

Yes, I know all that, but there are actually plenty of resources out there for learning punjabi, and the OP has been living in a punjabi-speaking household for the last 12 years, so I am quite actually that she doesn't know a word. Time to learn, I'd say - it definitely isn't too late OP, and it isn't as hard as it might look.

As for your DH, I find it odd that he doesn't understand why you might have dreams and ambitions of your own, and I don't believe this is a cultural thing actually. It's almost like he has forgotten that you are a real person. I think you need to make him understand why it is so important to you, and try to enlist the support of his parents in that as well. They sound like decent people, and you might find them more open-minded than your DH if you really explain to them how you feel.

With regards to unis in birmingham, I agree that as a mature student then you might be admitted with lower entry qualifications. Don't forget there is also Aston University and Newman University too, so heaps of choice. I did my PhD at Birmingham and loved the campus, did my PGCHE at BCU and have worked at Newman University so I know my Brum unis. However, I did a MSc with the OU and am currently doing a BSc with the OU and thats really good too.

I'm not really sure what sacrifices you have made OP - it sounds as though you have been treated very well. What have you been doing all day since your daughter started school in those 7 years - if not studying, or working, or running your own house, or even learning a couple of words of the language the family you have been living with for so long speak!

I can understand your DH's "whats the point" comment - you haven't exactly proved yourself in the world of work or even previous study, so why shell out for you to do a university degree when you might only be doing it for self-satisfaction? Why don't you instead get a job of some kind, lots of us had to do quite menial jobs to fund ourselves through uni, and study part-time to improve your A levels for getting into uni at the local college? That will get you back into the swing of things at least. I don't know how wise it is to go from doing nothing for 12 years to full time study at university level. And if you had DD at 17 and conditional offers based on your A level results, did you actually obtain those A levels? Universities might be slightly more lenient on mature candidates qualifications if they have life experience, but they still generally require some A levels.

Hello came back to say that I didn't mean OU is not a proper uni. I meant proper in that the OP can go somwhere everyday and finish her degree within 3 years. I don't know why the OP would need to do it part-time iyswim (although of course we don't know all the circumstances).

OP I lived with my in-laws for 3 years. They only have a traditional 3 bed semi so too small for our kids. Many asian parents expect their sons to stay with them - BUT most are not staying nowadays! In fact I don't know any married people within my family who have stayed more than 5 years. However, job relocation or space is usually given as the reason and you don't have those reasons....moving out because you WANT to is inconceivable, it has to be because you HAVE to....

Anyway, why not stay if you get on? They sound independant and you get all the benefits out of it too. Sounds like your DH has got a bit of a chip on his shoulder. He has worked hard so deserves to feel pleased with himself... but now its your turn!

Your DH's reason for not wanting to move out sounds utterly mad. How much looking after does an 11-year-old require? Surely your DD is mostly independent at this stage, isn't she?

He sees his parents as his family and me and DD as second to them, he has admitted this to me in the past (he tried to soften the blow by saying 'I love you two with all my heart but its just different with my parents').

I don't know how you can bear this. That would make me so sad.

I don't think anyone can criticise you for the decisions you've made over the last ten years or so. We make decisions as we make them, we do what seems best at the time, and it's all too easy to let months and years drift by without being fully aware of it.

What matters now it that you've decided (or realised, however you want to look at it) that it's high time for a chance. You've supported your husband, provided full time child care, and complied with your in-laws wishes too. If staying with things as they are isn't a happy prospect for you (sounds like it definitely isn't) then you must do as you see fit and return to study. Other posters (lesmissabs) has suggested that doing so - and particularly to study a non-vocational subject - is in some way indulgent - and that you'd be better off getting an entry level job, to 'prove' yourself to your DH and inlaws. Personally I feel that there would be a self-flagellating aspect to doing that, and your career options in the future would me much improved with a degree, whether vocational or non-vocational.

You have supported your husband in his academic and professional aspirations and now it is time for him to support you in yours. You are still young, with a lifetime of work ahead of you. I know lots of people who have retrained in their early 30s, and none of them regret it for a second.

I also agree with posters who have said that he is a Doctor, earning a doctor's wage, which is more than adequate to support a family, and that there is no need for you to be living with your in-laws. It's not up to him to have the last, final, or only word on this matter.

I also agree with posters who suggested that you shouldn't necessarily restrict yourself to the OU. I am not saying that it is not a 'proper' university - it absolutely is, and you do get contact time and seminars etc - but not quite so regularly as at other universities. They also have a fewer degree subjects on offer. Local universities may also have a lot of student support services that may be beneficial to you, and that distance learning may not provide.

If I were in your shoes I would be learning Punjabi - for a host of reasons.

Sorry, reread a bit and see that LesMissAbs also suggested that going to uni is ultimately a good goal, but that you may want to work part time and do A-levels first.

If you do need to improve your A-levels to get into the course/uni you want, then this is of course a good idea. But you may find that many Uni's offer a one-year 'return to learning' or access course for mature learners which prepares you for the challenges and rigour of a degree better than A-levels would.

HaedsDown Other posters (lesmissabs) has suggested that doing so - and particularly to study a non-vocational subject - is in some way indulgent - and that you'd be better off getting an entry level job, to 'prove' yourself to your DH and inlaws. Personally I feel that there would be a self-flagellating aspect to doing that, and your career options in the future would me much improved with a degree, whether vocational or non-vocational

I'm certainly not suggesting that the OP doesn't do a degree. Just that getting out into the world of work and study before embarking upon one first might be a good idea. If she hasn't studied or worked hard outside the home for a long time, she might be a bit rusty, and this will ease her passage. Or help her decide what is the right path for herself.

I do though think there is some merit in choosing your degree course as a means to an end to providing a job at the end of it, if you are of working age.

I also don't see that there is anything "self-flagellating" about an entry level job - most of us had to start somewhere, plenty of students hold down such jobs to fund themselves through uni, and a lot of employers look for commitment to work. Very few people walk into their ideal, well paid, highly respected job straight after university. I've always found employers were impressed by my shovelling shit jobs in the equine industry during the university holidays and never felt looked down upon for it.

Lessmiss - sorry, I did just note that I'd misinterpreted your post.

I don't think that getting exposure to the world of work while aiming towards a degree is a bad thing - I just don't think that she has to do it because she hasn't 'proven' herself to her DH and inlaws. Nor do I think there is anything wrong with entry level jobs either - but just that she doesn't need to 'prove' herself to her DH by taking them on. Did he work part time around his medical degree to prove himself to his family, I wonder?

There are strong reasons for choosing both vocational and non-vocational degrees, but that's a whole other issue. In my experience, none of my employers - or potential employers - were ever impressed by the crappy jobs I did to pay the rent while in training - and I've had some quite nasty comments about some of them in interview. Unfortunately there's a real stigma about some low skilled work that's hard to shake off. I stopped listing them on CVs and application forms, even when I thought the experience was quite relevant. Again, another issue.

OP, have you done any work for your in-laws furing this time? Maybe helping with the books or at the reception desk of your FIL's practice? You could list that as experience. There's nothing you can do about the gap now anyway, don't let that deter you.I do agree with MissLesAbs that going out and getting some sort of job to fund your uni studies would be preferable to asking in-laws and it would boost your self-esteem too

I did finish my a-levels I just didn't get my expected grades as I sat the exams 6 weeks after giving birth (BCC instead of AAA). DH didn't work to fund his degree, the inlaws paid for his living costs too, i've no idea why so many doctors are Asian but the Asian community does tend to place a strong respect on education and self-improvement, so being a doctor is often the natural choice for those with high grades and comes with a level of 'respect' in the community that other jobs don't have. I've had another chat with DH and he has apologised for being rude to me, he said he didn't mean to demean me but genuinely doesn't see why I would want to work now, but will support me in doing a degree if it will make me happy and if i'll consider another baby in 5 years. He refused to tell me why he speaks to DD in punjabi but my mother in law has agreed to teach me the language. DH did say that moving out was not negotiable- I can accept this. DH also agreed that sometimes he forgets we're a couple and he's not just DD's dad and a doctor, so is booking a weekend away for us sometime in August . I'm going to apply for jobs as a classroom assistant two mornings a week in the local primary schools. Thank you for your wonderful, confidence boosting advice ladies!

I answered the phone and booked appointments at my FIL's practice a few times many years ago, does that count as experience? That's the only thing i've done, and it was no more than 8 or so times.

Why do her in-laws have to fund her studies, mimi? Her DH is a fully qualified doctor, I'm sure he can manage to support her.

Mango, I'm glad to hear that your DH will support your decision to return to study. But I still do not understand why "moving out is not negotiable." You are partners - surely everything is negotiable? The 'agreement' that your study is contingent upon you considering another baby is slightly worrying to me.

It seems like he gets to make every decision in this relationship. Is he in sole control of your finances as a couple as well?

I'm glad things are looking up for you though. Working as a classroom assistant sounds great.

I wish everything was negotiable, and I know that's how it should be, but he has always had the final say on decisions (I think it's because for so many years I was so young and tired from having a baby I just trusted his decisions and now it's become the expected way of doing things- I am slowly trying to change this). But the moving out thing is so tied in with cultural reasons it would take a lot of negotiation to come to any sort of agreement- and we'd probably just end up living next door! Yes, whilst I don't mind the thought of another baby I do see your point: but when i'e got my degree and will, hopefully, work as a teacher I can just refuse to do so . He's in control of all the bills but we have a shared account so I have free access to his money and I have my own account which the in-laws put money in for me. Thank you! yes, being around the children should be fun and will get me back into the clssroom environment, good prep for teaching.

How have you lived there for 12 years and not learned Punjabi?!
Aside from that: don't have another baby, do study for a degree.

Don't understand why you'd want him to come for 3 weeks to stay with your family - go with your dd and get him to come a couple of times. Re: course - your child is 11 - why didn't you start part time course when she started primary school? Also re: language - why didn't you learn it?

I didn't start a course when DD started primary school because, well, I was lazy and didn't have the confidence! Doing nothing was an easy thing to go along with and just rolling along as the years passed, and my confidence was very low. I felt like I hadn't matured from the pregnant a-level pupil, and everybody would notice my immaturity and judge me for being so immature and a mother. It's only recently i've had the confidence to consider doing something for myself, but I know I should have done this years ago . I was also used to my lazy routine. I didn't learn it because DH's family always spoke to me in English and would speak to eachother in English whenever I'm around, again, I know I should have learnt it earlier. It's hard to change a routine that has been in place for years, but i'm definitely doing it .

This is the most extraordinary thread - thank you for posting it OP.

I am humbled by all the things I take for granted - my own independence being first and foremost. I could not have lived your life. You are uncomplaining and generous. It is time you came out of that shell and ventured out into the world a little bit.

Good luck!

Wuldric- Thank you . Yes, I guess I do live a different life to most... my friends' lives are hugely different to mine! thank you! Aha I am going to