To think that there is nothing wrong with being a "pushy" mum

[CliftonGirl]

Just that really. I used to be a "relaxed" mum with DS1 which I regret, but thankfully I switched to a "pushy" mode when he was in year four. As a result he moved from a bottom-middle set to a super selective grammar and doing brilliantly. I am very pushy with the younger DCs.

I've noticed a lot of people on mumsnet think that we are still in the 20th century and you can get to Oxbridge from a mediocre school without much effort. AIBU to think that the world is much more competitive now and there is no choice but to push DC to achieve?

Ps, English is not my first language, so please don't flame me for the spelling mistakes.

we're talkin about child,not business strategy.push to achieve sound so wanky
that child will have preferences,abilities,and us there solely to fulfil maternal goals
your posts are all about you your preference,your pushiness.has the child got overlooked

There is a strong element of genetics with mental illness. Low achieving people suffer depression/ anxiety etc as well.

I am keen for my children to enjoy learning. If they pass exams then that is bonus. A really keen moviated student who enjoys their subject will work hard and enjoy university even if they don't get a 2.1.

My son plays guitar and enjoys music. We meet a lot of children who play music instruments. A child who enjoys guitar will ask another guitarist what music they like to play. A child who is pushed to oblivion will ask what grade someone is on.

I work in funerals. I recently conducted one for a man in his 40's who died suddenly, and the funeral was being organised by his (very lovely) parents.
One of the things they found a great comfort was that, against their advice, their son had decided not to pursue a career in finance, like his grandfather.
Instead he'd become an absolute pioneer in organic gardening. He'd had an enormous effect on hundreds of people, had in their words 'lived very day to the full'; we decorated the room with beaming photos of him on the various allotments and projects he'd set up, and quotes from people who said their lives had been changed for the better by his work.
And he was pretty broke all his life.

The only real safety is in following your heart and your passion.

Clifton.
No I don't.
If that were such a great deal then no person with money would ever have substance abuse problems, or be depressed, or god forbid, take their own life, would they?
Because even though they are unhappy they get to go to the Bahamas?
Your whole argument makes very sad reading.
My dc are 9 and 4 ATM.
My eldest wants to be (variously) a farmer, pilot, race car driver or history teacher. I think he would be great at any of them. Not because if his intelligence, or test scores, but because he gives 110% to anything he does, and perseveres with great humour in the face of difficulty.
My ds2 will either be an actor or singer I think :)
The whole idea that a happy life = rich is just so wrong.
Take a look at the newspaper headlines, e celeb magazines.
Money just means you get to be as miserable as everyone else, but whist wearing Chanel.
Doesn't appeal to me tbh.

People seem to be confusing parents who push their kids so that they fulfill their full potential with parents who push their kids beyond what they are capable of achieving comfortably.

Also, being happy and being in highly paid jobs are not mutually exclusive. Listening to some people talk, it's a choice between being happy and studying.

We help our dc, we encourage their interest, we spend time with them.
That's what any good parent does.
My ds1 works hard in school.
He then has homework which we supervise and help with (if we can!) and help him complete.
It's pretty sad actually at how many parents just don't/can't/won't, but that's another thread entirely!

Niceguy2, the misplaced apostrophe in your first post is most definitely a fail...

OP, I hope you have brought your children up to be fluent in your native language- bilingualism is a very marketable skill that you can give them for free. And let them watch telly in the week, for goodness sake- DP and I watched hours of the stuff every night as kids and we both got to Cambridge. Taught us everything we know....

What I was trying to say is that you can be miserable in both high paid and low paid jobs. But at least in a high paying job you get a material benefit and you can provide for your children. For some reason a lot of posters are assuming that their children are going to end up in a fulfilling job. Yet most grown ups moan about their jobs/careers.

They are more likely to end up in a fulfilling job if they are following the path they want be that shelf stacking in a supermarket or a brain surgeon.

Parents should support children in what they want to do and encourage them to do the best they can. They shouldn't pressure them to follow a certain path or to achieve certain grades.

Exactly sirzy very well said

I spent an hour or so last night reassuring my dd that if she didn't get As in everything that it was OK, that we loved her very much, that she was our wonderful lovely daughter even if she might get a B and that she was NOT to push herself so hard. She is 12 and gets very very stressed by exams/tests, so much so that she will make herself ill.

On the other hand I often tell my son to get his finger out and work a bit harder to get the As that he probably should.

They are both clever, but have very very different personalities and strengths/abilities. ds is dyslexic so struggles with the basics but has the sort of brain that jumps to solutions. Once he has got through the straightjacket of school and finds his passion I think he will (probably) do very well. dd is more conventional but works very hard. So long as she doesn't over stress I think she will also do very well, probably better than ds because working hard is important.

I've no idea what either of them will choose for university/career and have no intention of influencing them too much, except to make sure they research what they need to succeed. As parents our role is to support our children in their ambitions, not to push them into what we think is right for them (or us as the case may be).

dh still picks up BIl's bills, pays for his holidays. Dh's parents paid BIl's flat downpayment and bought him a car. All this because BIL is a free spirit and followed his dream of working in a supermarket job. It's nice to follow your dreams when somebody else is paying.

You can be as "pushy" as you like - it won't grow brains.

I prefer encourage, grow, nurture with the occasional bit of bribery and blackmail.

"Pushy" does no one any good, it festers resentment.

Sorry for horrible typos.

"Parents should support children in what they want to do and encourage them to do the best they can. They shouldn't pressure them to follow a certain path or to achieve certain grades."

I actually agree with you, but parents can guide. There is a difference between pushing a child to persue a specific career path and making sure that they have reasonable grades to keep options open. It is one thing for a child to have dreams and completely another thing to make those dreams realitiy.

If children have a good academic foundation then they have more options. Certainly failing exams is not the end of the world, but life is far tougher getting qualifications as a mature student.

People who pay for private schools are just outsourcing the cultural capital that they either can't or don't want to provide for their children. That's their choice, I guess. My parents were thoroughly middle middle class - teacher and librarian - and we lived in house full of books and conversation. It was wonderful, looking back, and I hope I provide something half as good for my own kids. I didn't even think about university until about 3 months before I had to apply, and I still remember my mum saying 'what about Cambridge?'. No problem, bog standard comprehensive and all.

Yes, of course people can be miserable in all kinds of jobs. That's a good reason for trying to instill the skills that will help your kids to manage their emotions - resilience, motivation, ability to manage stress - none of these are learnt by being 'pushed'.

Like I said earlier, its easy for you to say that a high paying job that makes you miserable is worth it, because the misery is offset by the material benefits, because you, personally, don't have to face the misery of doing that job yourself. How does your DH feel about it?

There is a massive difference between being a supportive parent (which is excellent) and a pushy parent (which puts the emotional needs of the parent above the child's and is potentially damaging).

To be honest I think the best support of all is to lead by example. It can be very frustrating for children to be held to standards that their parents haven't achieved, and show no inclination to achieve. Parents that demonstrate no desire to learn new things or take on new challenges themselves, in their own work and personal lives, but are always nagging their DCs to take on more, work harder, and push themselves further are the worst, imo.

But Clifton your dh and his parents should not bail him out, he is jst encouraging this behaviour and should learn to stand on his own feet and grow up. Same could happen to someone with an Oxbridge degree who lounged about and let everyone pay for them. Some ofte most successful people do not have an academic education e.g Sir Richard Branson, Bill Gates

Totally agree. My best motivation was watching my father with his very interesting career which he was obviously very good at and enjoyed and thinking I'd like to live my life like that. He never ever pushed us, but was always interested and knowledgeable about whatever interest or career path we took. He did discourage us from a few things, and helped us to understand what we needed to do to to get where he wanted.

Sadly he always felt he'd let his parents down by not being highly academic like they were.

Clifton - so what you are saying, essentially, is that if you are pushed and do well at school, and get a good job, you can be miserable in comfort, rather than in poverty?

Unashamed pushy mum here. Yes I'm supportive, encouraging etc but we're from an ethnicity and borough where average GCSE pass rates are below the national average and unemployment is rife. Too right I want my children to aim high in their chosen vocation!

"People who pay for private schools are just outsourcing the cultural capital that they either can't or don't want to provide for their children. That's their choice, I guess."

What utter bollocks, JE001. We're sending DD2 to a private school that specialises in art, as she is very gifted at art (her current teacher's assessment, not mine). We could, of course, send her to the local comprehensive that is failing, and has drifted in and out of special measures over the past 10 years, but as long as she has books and intelligent conversation at home, that would compensate, would it? We're lucky in that we have the choice to do this. But really - outsourcing the cultural capital? This way she gets the education that is most suited to her, plus the bonus of a reasonably cultural family, who will talk to her, and take her to the theatre and museums at weekends.

Not exactly, what I am trying to say is that I hope my kids are happy with whatever they choose, but I'd like them to have a safety net of a good education.

I almost get that point tbh.

Money won't make you happy. But it's more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes than on a bicycle.

Exactly!