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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that there is nothing wrong with being a "pushy" mum

999 replies

CliftonGirl · 03/06/2013 10:55

Just that really. I used to be a "relaxed" mum with DS1 which I regret, but thankfully I switched to a "pushy" mode when he was in year four. As a result he moved from a bottom-middle set to a super selective grammar and doing brilliantly. I am very pushy with the younger DCs.

I've noticed a lot of people on mumsnet think that we are still in the 20th century and you can get to Oxbridge from a mediocre school without much effort. AIBU to think that the world is much more competitive now and there is no choice but to push DC to achieve?

Ps, English is not my first language, so please don't flame me for the spelling mistakes.

OP posts:
CliftonGirl · 05/06/2013 22:51

Messalina, I agree with your post, unfortunately I feel like I have no choice because as you said I don't want my kids to be "left behind". (And there are some really scary competitive parents at dc prep).

OP posts:
seeker · 05/06/2013 23:00

What do you mean by "left behind?"

morethanpotatoprints · 05/06/2013 23:00

CliftonGirl.

I can see where you are coming from because I have been in your position, not academically but certainly with dds vocational subjects.
However, having removed myself from that scenario and stepping back I can see how a child could be pushed too far and in the wrong direction.
I know you are going to continue to push and i don't think it is necessarily wrong to push or even helicopter at times. However, what isn't healthy is the competitive mum, you need to draw a line here. To me this is where it all goes wrong and it is easy to expect too much from your child, they pick up on this and quite often never feel good enough.
We all want the best for our dc but sometimes its better to look at what is best for them, not what other people and the ed system prescribe whats best.

CliftonGirl · 05/06/2013 23:06

Morethan, I ddint mean competing with other mums as in comparing dc achievements, but rather "competing" for places at schools, universities, etc.

OP posts:
CliftonGirl · 05/06/2013 23:08

Seeker, is your post addressed to me?

OP posts:
FunLovinBunster · 05/06/2013 23:09

OP you need to step back from this and ask herself what your real motivation is for all this pushy behaviour.
Are you trying to live your life vicariously through the children?

FunLovinBunster · 05/06/2013 23:11

Also, IME teachers can't stand pushy parents.
They can spot alphas a mile off.
Teachers aren't stupid.

FunLovinBunster · 05/06/2013 23:13

Final thought from me.
Your DC may be lovely and compliant, doing what mummy tells them now.
I'd be interested to see what they are like as they hit mid teens and peer pressure and wanting to look cool etc kicks in.

CliftonGirl · 05/06/2013 23:16

Funlovin, the oldest is at a very competitive grammar, the peer pressure so far is to study hard. It all might change of course.

OP posts:
MsAverage · 05/06/2013 23:17

Well, English is not my first language either, and I do not see any slightest need in Oxbridge for my DD. European passport will guarantee her right to universal benefits and healthcare, which is quite enough. It is 21st century, for god's sake, there is no need to cut throats for a place under the sun, the shades are perfectly habitable.

morethanpotatoprints · 05/06/2013 23:21

CliftonGirl

My apologies, I got the wrong end of the stick there Grin

To me your last post sums it up nicely. When peer pressure is to study hard when they are in a highly academic environment this is good and positive, if the dc are that way inclined.
The opposite would be my dd who would completely go to pieces in that sort of environment. Hence, has never really been a thought for us.
If you acknowledge their feelings, allow for their weaknesses and quirks and don't try to model them into something they're not. I don't see a problem.

FunLovinBunster · 05/06/2013 23:26

I was educated at all girls GPDST private school. I read law at university. The school wanted me to apply to Oxord. I chose not to because I preferred the course structure at Manchester. To me that was worth more than the kudos studying at Oxford would have brought me.
Oxbridge is not the be all and end all.
I make sure my DD (also at private all girls school) does homework etc, and I let her do two after school activities a week. But I am not going to fill her free time at weekends etc with mind improving shitola when what she should be doing is being a child, ie playing having fun and enjoying her life. Half of these shitty after school activities are all about the parent and not about what the child wants.
Back off or you will burn your child out. Or alienate her from you.

janey007 · 06/06/2013 02:52

The skills required by our young people means that they will have to cope with more rejection than ever before.
Maybe we should concentrate on boosting their self-esteem in order that they can cope.

wordfactory · 06/06/2013 08:24

messalina what you seem to be saying is that you're upset that because you work full time you don't have time to be a pushy mother. And it's not fair, because the SAHMs do have time. So they shouldn't do it.

Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but this seems a very odd observation.

To be honest lots of pushy parents work! And lots are Dads!

Many SAHMs are very relaxed, actively avoiding anyhting challenging or competitive for their DC.

wordfactory · 06/06/2013 08:26

flb I hear what you say about extra currics. Some DC aint interested (DS for one) but some positively thrive on them!

You can't extrapolate what all DC are like based on your one child Grin!

Yellowtip · 06/06/2013 08:30

YABU OP. Get the school right for the DC if you can, which shouldn't require pushiness, and then leave them to it if they're applying themselves moderately. There's a case for intervening with lazy ones but other than that, not.

HabbaDabba · 06/06/2013 09:15

In a number of recent threads about homework and tutoring a number of MN regulars have gone on about how they prefer to spend their time taking their kids to museums and libraries. They talk about how they like to read newspapers with the DCs and discuss the how and whys with them.

Well, I find it funny how some of those regulars are on this thread going on about how they don't subscribe to this pushy parenting business. I live near Luton. Around here you are the pushy parents Grin

niceguy2 · 06/06/2013 09:35

I think you are confusing feeling a failure with failing.

Totally agree Merrymouse. I might be unpopular again but I want my kids to fail occasionally. It'll do them good.

The world is not full of merit prizes for taking part. I want them to experience both success and failure. They should be allowed to enjoy their success and feel failure when they don't. BUT...my children know that I don't think any less of them when they fail. That my love is unwavering and i'll help them try again.

That's why stupid school sports where noone wins, noone loses drives me MAD. It's simply not a reflection of life. And if we bring kids up in this world where you get nothing but praise, how do they cope the first time they get rejected for a job? Or their boss tells them their report was crap?

froubylou · 06/06/2013 09:46

I have only read the first and last page of this thread so forgive me if I repeat anything already said.

For me a mums or dads or other carers job is to care first and foremost and make a child feel loved, secure and confident of their place in the family, the school, in extra curric activities and in society in general.

A child should realise that their opinion and feelings are as important as anyone elses no matter what that feeling or opinion is.

If you are constantly pushing your child to do better, to work harder, to achieve more, to get better results its too easy to undermine your own child and those other children or other grownups who don't or can't achieve what your child can and does. You give an unnecessary emphasise on final results rather than the actual journey to get their. You can alienate your child from its peers and make social inclusion difficult for your child going forwards. At best you create an overconfident over achiever who at some point will 'burn out' in some dramatic way or an adult or young person with a massive inferiority complex who feels they don't fit in with their 'peers' as they don't achieve enough and doesn't fit in with those who haven't acheived as much.

My DD is in year 4. We have ponies and do the showing scene. She doesn't particularly want to ride in the ring (despite having a top class ridden pony) so shows inhand instead. The amount of ponyclub type mums who berate me for this is staggering. They have children of similar ages on Rescue Remedy and god knows what else just to get them in the ring. They go around in tears. Nothing they do is good enough and even if they win the class they've usually qualified for another big show so no pleasure in winning, just the realisation that even more pressure is coming their way.

My daughter laughs, giggles and jokes around the ring. She cuddles her ponies, has icecreams between classes (the ridden lots jackets cost too much to risk an icecream) and her rossesttes and trophies are treasured memories of happy days. She'll ride in the ring if she wants to. And if she hates it she will go back to in hand classes and have the ball we have whilst the ridden lot either refuse to continue with ponies or start needing prosac to continue. What is really, really sad for me is that most of the ponyclub mums were riders themselves at some point and have now lost their bottle so live their dreams through their unfortunate offspring.

Help your kids achieve their dreams. Support them in their schoolwork and hobbies. Be interested in what they want to do later on in life and the best way for them to get their. But remember they are children for such a short time and a happy childhood is filled with parks, seaside visits, playing with friends, having duvet days cuddled up on the sofa watching disney films with mum and generally having very few pressures other than keeping a relatively tidy bedroom and doing the required amount of homework.

A happy childhood is not spent doing extra schoolwork, learning a complicated musical instrument (unless that is the childs passion) for hours on end and living mums dreams for her. Wait until your children have left home and live your own dreams.

cory · 06/06/2013 09:58

Absolutely agree with this niceguy.

I want my children to experience failure, and experience picking themselves up again. Dd has been very unwell and will not be getting the GCSE's she could have expected: both she and we know that this is the case, we are not pretending these are the expected results, but they are stepping stones for her to move forward from. I think she can build something positive on this experience.

What I do not want is what my db went through for the first 15 years or so of his life: a constant feeling that you are just never going to live up to the expectations placed on you.

It only changed when he was able to move into a different world where different expectations were placed on him- to his surprise found he was not a failure after all.

Failing now and then is no doubt good for you. Feeling that you fail every expectation throughout your formative years cannot possibly be good for you.

HabbaDabba · 06/06/2013 09:58

In the lead up to his school's Young Musician of the Year competition during Year 7, despite my nagging him to practice, all DS did was about 10 minutes every other day. He failed to place 1st, 2nd or 3rd. The boy had never lost a competition before but that was a Big Fish Small Pond thing so a bit of cockyness and over confidence had crept in.

In Year 8 he practiced an hour a day, with no nagging from me, in the month leading up to the competition. He won.

So I agree with niceguy2. Failing occasionally is good provided it is not accompanied by recriminations by pushy parents.

HabbaDabba · 06/06/2013 10:03

Reading the posts from people with pushy parents has made me re-examine my pushy parent credentials. Using those parents as a benchmark I might downgrade myself to 'Supportive but bordering on mildly pushy-ness' :)

cory · 06/06/2013 10:05

Oh dear, Habba, don't tell us you're failing Wink

wordfactory · 06/06/2013 10:36

If you regularly push yourself from your comfort zone then the prospect of failing is ever present.

It won't bother you, if you've failed plenty of times before. You'll know from experience that no one died...

Obviously some people are far more fearful of failure than others. That's intrinsic. But regular exposure to risk and failure can build up tolerance and resilience.

The reality though, is that most people don't live their lives like this. They live conservative, risk averse lives. They don't challenge themselves. They haven't chased their dreams.

cory · 06/06/2013 10:46

But wordfactory, there is a difference between pushing yourself beyond your comfort zone/failing occasionally and living with people whose expectations you can never live up to.

And a big difference between chasing your dreams and chasing your parents' dreams when you have different dreams of your own.

Dd is going to try for a very difficult and competitive career. She knows she may fail but that is part of the deal. No problems. It is her dream and the risk is worth taking. She is going into it with her eyes wide open and failure won't break her.

Totally different from my db who was never going to make an academic and never wanted to, but had parents who assumed (at first) that because he was their child he would be like them, share their dreams and their abilities, and that what had been good for them would therefore be good for him. This was never about him pushing himself beyond his comfort zone to achieve his dreams: it was about him thinking that there must be something wrong with him because his own secret dreams were so different.

Thankfully they saw the light and are now very proud of him. But it took years for him to recover his self confidence.